Submittin’ like a Kitten

If only I’d married “Chad”.

The perfect man who lives just over the fence, where the grass is always greener.

Chad Thundercock

Chad Thundercock    6′ 3″  &  Insanely Confident

A recent comment made me wonder, if it is possible that women like to shift the blame for their lack of compliance & submission onto their husbands?

And, personally, being a woman, there’s nothing I love more than a dominant, masculine man who isn’t afraid to stand up and take charge. It’s pretty near impossible to be submissive to a limp dishrag who refuses to lead.

I think I have also heard women say the opposite: “if only my husband wasn’t so overbearing and demanding, then I would find it easy to submit to him.”

Many women seemingly say to themselves; I’d be submittin’ like a kitten, if only my husband was perfectly everything I wanted him to be, changing in harmony with my moods, and was a fit helper to fulfill my every desire.

The downside of the soul mate / fairy tale view of relationships

Apparently some women have difficulty submitting because their husbands are not assertive enough, while others have difficulty submitting because their husbands are too assertive.  And no doubt some have difficulty even though their husband is the perfect balance of assertiveness, because everything he is asserting is somehow just wrong.

Did she choose her own man?  The answer is: Yes!  Women are the gatekeepers of sex.  Unless she was forced to marry a man who raped her,(like in some Islamic countries) then she truly did have the option to say “no, I do not”, instead of saying “I do”.  She may have even arranged to be given away to this man by her own father.  So, how did her husband become so unworthy, that he can no longer be submitted to, as unto the Lord?  And how did the mythical “Chad Thundercock” become so perfect for so many different types of women, while their own husbands constantly miss the mark so badly?  Is “Chad” really that well-endowed?  Girlfriend! I’ve heard his manhood is almost as big as “the fish that got away”, and yet guaranteed to always feel just right.  He’s such a good lover!  He does stuff to you that you’ll love before you ever knew you’d like it.  Somehow Chad just knows.  But if your own husband did the same stuff, it would just be all wrong, and you’d feel used and violated, not like when Chad did it perfectly in your mind.

Maybe for the good of all marriages, we need to hunt Chad down and expose him as being a fabricated figmentary fantasy.  Or better yet, make him marry one of these hos he’s supposedly bedding, and then let her tell the world what a dirty rat disappointing husband Chad turned out to be, and how abusive he is, and how she was forced to divorce him and flee with the kids and all Chad’s stuff.(although she is still living in Chad’s former home)  And how she had to go to court to force Chad to fully pay for her life on easy street, while she is having to screw a growing list of men, on Chad’s dollar, to console herself about the breakup over Chad’s failure to be who she thought he should have been.

The problem for us is Chad is perpetually single, always available to even the ugliest and orneriest women, he refuses to ever marry, and he can be such a homewrecker, always one-upping husbands.  That Bastard!

30 thoughts on “Submittin’ like a Kitten

  1. I answered your question in the previous post, but yes, you are probably right – if we can blame men for our lack of submission, why wouldn’t we? Women are sinful creatures, after all. Just like men blame women withholding sex for their porn addiction. It’s human nature to shift the blame, no matter the circumstances. It’s something we’re probably all guilty of.

    Yes, I love a dominant, masculine man who isn’t afraid to stand up and take charge. But is it easy to submit to him? No!! It isn’t!!
    Would I love an overbearing, demanding bully? No. Would I find it easy to submit to a man like that? No!! Definitely not!! If the man I married turned into an overbearing, demanding bully I would be unhappy, rebellious, deeply sad and regretful of what my life had become, and would probably leave him. So it really pays to make sure we know our partner well, before we marry them.

    I want a man who treats me with respect and kindness while clearly making his standards and few expectations known, and upholding them in his firm but gentle way. A few examples: my husband hates it when I cut my hair. But it’s really fine, and impossible to manage when it’s so long I can sit on it, so I hate it long. It took 4 haircuts of me cutting my hair to just above my shoulders, layered, so it looked good and was easy to manage, and my husband telling me he didn’t like it so short, for me to keep it to my shoulder-blades – manageable for me, and my husband likes it.
    Was he overbearing and demanding? No. Did he pretend he liked my haircut to keep me happy and to keep the peace (limp dishrag)? No. He was clear about what he thought, then dropped the matter. I (eventually) chose to honour his wishes about my hair length. I wish I had done it sooner.

    My husband also hates me wearing tight pants out in public. He was very adamant about this – he doesn’t want me dressing like I’m trying to attract other men. He was more forceful about this than he was about my hair, because it was more important to him, I guess. I obeyed him on this matter much quicker because I agreed that he had a point – he didn’t need to be overbearing or demanding about it. He just stated his opinion calmly and firmly. He never told me I “couldn’t” – but that he didn’t like it.

    Would I love a limp dishrag of a man who lets his wife boss him around and wear the pants? No. And it would be impossible for me to submit to a man like that, because I have a very unsubmissive, strong, opinionated personality. Even though the Bible commands the wife to submit to her husband, if there is nothing to submit to (ie she’s in charge) it would not be an easy thing to do.

    I don’t know about Chad Thundercock. “Insanely confident” translates to me as “arrogant tosser” and arrogant tossers don’t do much for me. Ultimately, I submit to my husband because I choose to. Every woman can choose to submit to her husband, no matter what personality type he has. If we’ve been raised to know that our role is in submission to our husbands, we need to find the type of man we can easily submit to, or it’s going to be much harder. If we haven’t been raised to know that our role is to be in subjection to our husband’s, it’s going to be hard to accept that, no matter what.
    I’m not a very submissive wife. It’s something I will probably always struggle with. But, for me anyway, having a dominant, alpha-male husband who isn’t overbearing or demanding, makes it much easier. When he *does* edge towards demanding, I naturally rebel and we argue and it’s unpleasant. When he keeps that (very rare) demanding, overbearing, bullying side in check, submission is easier.


  2. Ace says: If we’ve been raised to know that our role is in submission to our husbands, we need to find the type of man we can easily submit to, or it’s going to be much harder. If we haven’t been raised to know that our role is to be in subjection to our husband’s, it’s going to be hard to accept that, no matter what.

    Very true. And I agree with your husband, go with the longer hair, and don’t wear tight pants in public, especially not to attract other men. Intentionally tempting men to lust is in my opinion, worse than a man lusting. Tempting people is the job of demons.

    Just like men blame women withholding sex for their porn addiction.

    Well, it isn’t just men doing the blaming, God also says that foregoing or withholding sex leads directly to temptation to sexual immorality, and marriage is to be used to prevent that.
    1 Corinthians7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

    You and your husband, and all married couples, should indulge each other, not deprive each other. That’s what God says, God already knows there is a lack of self-control, so don’t put each other into temptation. You’ll be quite fortunate if porn is the only thing your partner falls into.


  3. Sharkly – I absolutely agree about indulging each other sexually, and that’s not something that has ever been an issue in our marriage. I do know that some spouses (more women than men, most likely) withhold sex (or even intimacy) as a manipulation technique and I believe it’s wrong. One woman I know, while she was having an affair, made her husband pay her for sex, which is even more wrong.

    Just as a clarification, I never dress to attract the attention of other men, but my favourite, most comfortable pair of pants happens to be tight-fitting, and I like to wear them because they’re comfortable. My attitude was that of most feminists (I’m not a feminist but we do live in a feminist world so some of their attitudes rubbed off) which was I’ll wear what I want, if men want to look that’s on them, not me. But my husband pointed out the Bible verses about modesty and reminded me that I am his, and only his, and he doesn’t want anyone else looking at me, even if I am dressing for comfort and not for attention.


  4. Just as a clarification, I never dress to attract the attention of other men, but my favourite, most comfortable pair of pants happens to be tight-fitting, and I like to wear them because they’re comfortable.

    Same here! My favorite pair of jeans gives me gas pains when I sit down, and hurts my nuts when I walk, but I’m wearing them for the comfort, I can’t help if they also show off my muscular butt. /S


  5. I do know that some spouses (more women than men, most likely) withhold sex (or even intimacy) as a manipulation technique and I believe it’s wrong.

    Yeah, that is exactly where I’m at right now. My wife has Intimacy Anorexia, and is still refusing treatment. She has been withholding since our marriage began and we are currently mid-divorce because of its effects on her. Our boys are robbed of having two parents because of it. Please pray for us. My wife claims she wants to reconcile, but she seems to feel she has done nothing wrong, and that my efforts to get her to live right constitute abuse. In more ways than I can explain, like Christ, I have given up my life for her. But she is seemingly blind to it, because I’m still alive. Nobody understands why I endure it, and few even believe it. Hopefully my kids will grow up to understand the sacrifice I have made for them and for my faith, but even if only God knows, that is enough.


  6. Sharkly – I am very sorry to hear that, and I will definitely pray for you and your family.
    I know very little about intimacy anorexia, but from the little I do know, blame is very prevalent among intimacy anorexics, so it makes sense that even though your wife wants to reconcile, she doesn’t acknowledge her part to the issue. The way I understand it is it’s also very treatable, so there is hope for you all. It must be an awful condition to live with.

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  7. Sharkly,
    Ace is reading here and so probably part of a 1% of unicorns, but the impact of her on me, is similar to what Jason gets from the manosphere. That is, keeping a woman submissive seems like an impossible task and in no way worth it. The biggest sales pitch for MGTOW for me isn’t the skanks, but those that are considered the good ones. It would blow my circuit to have to explain about leggings and then to get a response of, I didn’t know, they are just comfortable. ” I’d say ok, and the corner of the roof is comfortable for me.


  8. I hear you Swanny River. I won’t speculate exactly what % level Ace is at, but based upon comments I recall by her elsewhere on the web, I’m not ready to mistake her for a unicorn just yet. Commenter ‘ikr’ seems to think church ladies aren’t necessarily always better, see his comment here:
    I hear you about the leggings too. Hopefully they’re not the most comfortable because she outgrew all her non-stretchy clothes. 😉 LOL


  9. Thank you for your prayers Ace. Yes, I’m hopeful that if I could ever get her to submit to getting treatment for Intimacy Anorexia, things could be much better. But unfortunately the family courts, the church, the “Christian counselling”, all have one thing in common: asking her to submit to her husband is automatically off the table.


  10. LOL I don’t even know what a unicorn is (aside from a mythical horse with a horn on its head) so I find that comment somewhat amusing and confusing. If you tell me what a unicorn is, I can tell you what % I’m at 🙂 I’m not sure whether later comments about church ladies are referring to me or not, but I can tell you right now that I’m no “church lady”. For starters, the church I attend isn’t a church by church standards, but a home fellowship. I’m a sinner who is battling on alone, doing my best to serve the Lord in a divided home (not separated, but my husband does not follow Christ right now) and to set a good example for my children. I’m failing fairly spectacularly, but God hasn’t given up on me yet.

    I’ve seen many comments by Sharkly elsewhere on the web and I came here to see why he comes across as so bitter and resentful, almost hateful, of women. The way people think, and the reason why they think that way, is endlessly fascinating to me (it’s entirely why I studied psychology) And reading through this blog, and the comments, and links to other sites from here, has given me a fairly good understanding, I think.

    I can tell you though, that “keeping a woman submissive” is of course an impossible task, because submission is a gift. It’s something a woman chooses to give, or not. It’s not something you can force, or keep. God gave women free will just as He gave men. “Keeping a woman submissive” is probably where you’re making mistakes. There are things men can do which make it easier for women to submit, but ultimately, you can do all those things and she might refuse to submit anyway, or you could do none of them and she could choose to submit, regardless. I’m not quite sure why men think they have any control over a women’s submission, or lack of it.

    As for my tight pants…. they’re not leggings. They’re not stretchy. Leggings are not pants. And my tight pants are nowhere near as tight as leggings, my husband is just possessive and doesn’t like me wearing anything that shows off my shape at all (even clingy skirts are out). They’re old sweat pants that I’ve had for years, they’re soft and worn and comfortable. And they’re tight because I’ve had 4 kids and no longer exercise like I used to (I used to be a competitive horse rider) so they’re much more snug fitting than they once were. I’m not overweight by any means, but my body isn’t as toned as it used to be, and the pants that used to hang loosely no longer do. But good on you for jumping to conclusions. You know what they say about assumptions, right?


  11. I just read the post linked to above regarding “church ladies”. A number of sayings come to mind here. The first one: going to church doesn’t make one a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes them a car.
    And: if it wasn’t for the Christians, I would be one.

    Just because someone goes to church, or declares themselves to be a Christian, does not mean they are a Christian. A Christian is a person who follows Jesus, who follows His teachings and His way. If you’re not following Christ you’re not a Christian, no matter how you choose to describe yourself. The Bible states that God is not mocked. Those “Christians” who are making a mockery of God’s way will be judged, one day. Just as the truly faithful ones will get their reward.

    Most churches conform to the world because, far from striving to win souls for the Lord, they want a big congregation. Because the bigger the congregation, the more money comes in, and the bigger the salary the Pastor gets. Most churches these days are about making money, more than anything else. They can’t have a big congregation by teaching truth. Instead, they cherry-pick the scripture that makes people feel good, and leave the rest out. I’m very grateful *not* to belong to a church like this. And the ladies that attend our fellowship are vastly different from the women that are being described in that post. I so wish all you bitter, hurting men could meet some of them. Your faith in women might be restored.


  12. Ace,
    A Unicorn is a rare mythical creature or a woman who refuses to be influenced by our Feminist culture, but instead chooses to enjoy her role as a submissive helper and being her husbands love toy, a woman who would never cheat, steal your children, or run you through the courts. Red Pilled men often speculate as to their existence and prevalence. Perhaps I could do a post on Unicorns.
    The comment about churchian ladies actually being more entitled was a general comment, not aimed at you.

    So, you come here for research purposes to find out what makes a bitter and resentful man tick. LOL Nice way to frame that. I could reframe why you come here, but I’m just happy to have people here reading and commenting, whatever they choose to tell themselves to justify it. My experiences with women in my life have included a couple of bad ones. My mom did not want to have me, never accepted me, and seriously claimed, that I had tried to kill her while I was in utero. She sided against me any chance she could. I wasn’t in a hurry to get married, but really wanted to find a woman who would love and accept me when I did. I dated a wonderful young woman for 2.5 years, and had an awesome time until it came to an end. She was quite young, an only child, and her mom was not ready to hand her over to me. Then I dated my wife for almost two years, long distance. That was great too, and I only imagined things getting better when I married her. But like a satanic trap snapping shut on me, the moment I married her she changed instantly into an evil person intentionally distancing me and taunting me with her disloyalty and refusal to allow intimacy to exist between us. She literally went from being my biggest fan, to honing ways to psychologically torment me the worst she could, in a single week. And has continued to return evil for good for the last 17 years. Anyhow, that’s my background with women. And I still like women. I was made to. I got a sex drive like… well, the professional who analyzed me called it “Robust”. My poor wife, she repels close intimacy of any form, and like a Scooby-Doo villain she was trying to scare me away from it, but no matter how hateful she was, I still just wanted to ride her hard like a rented mule, or however it suited us. I’m always ready for some loving. Now I can also appreciate women’s virtue, and their domestic work, their practicality, and such, so I can also esteem a good woman for other things besides her babymaker. And any man who says much more than that is likely sterile or just regurgitating flattery.

    I’m not quite sure why men think they have any control over a women’s submission, or lack of it.

    I think most men realize they are allowed little to no control, these days, and that is why it is so crucial to find a woman who seems likely to be willing and submissive. Crazy how some churches teach that if a man is loving the wife will be submissive in return. Apparently they never read the book of Hosea.

    So, you still think you look good in tight pants. Huh! LOL Apparently Noah’s wife must have had a mutation in the part of the brain that tells women when that is no longer true. And now all women lack the ability to know when to give up the tight pants. Your husband claims he’s just possessive. Bless him! He’s got more tact than most. You really are fortunate to have a nice man like that. 😉

    I agree with you on the church stuff!

    I so wish all you bitter, hurting men could meet some of them. [ladies that attend our fellowship] Your faith in women might be restored.

    “Faith in women” LOL I tried that already. My mom and wife were both like Lucy Vanpelt. “Don’t you want to come kick the football, Charlie Brown”? I’ll stick with faith in God and just have an appropriate appreciation of women for what they actually merit.


  13. Sharkly – My husband reckons I look good in tight pants. He thinks I look good in everything! Me, I don’t really care one way or the other. I dress for comfort these days – I’ve got the man I want, and have no desire to attract the attention of anyone else. But I’m 5’9″ and weighed 60kg when I got married, 17 years and 4 kids later I weigh 65kg so haven’t gained a huge amount. I can still (just) fit into my wedding dress, but I can’t breathe too well 😦 And nope, my husband doesn’t claim he’s possessive, that’s my wording. It sounds nicer than “control freak”.

    Unicorns. Hmm. Well I’m definitely not a feminist if you use the modern description of feminist. I do choose to enjoy my role as a submissive helper, but it’s a choice I need to keep working on, because it definitely doesn’t come naturally to me. But I definitely love being my husband’s love toy 🙂 I don’t think I fit into the category of unicorn, although I know a number of women who do.

    You can reframe my reasons for reading your blog however you like, but it doesn’t change the truth: I’m interested in people. My own father, who was cheated on multiple times over his 25 year marriage, and eventually kicked my mum out so she could be with her lover when I was 18, has remained single (as the Bible instructs) and is slightly bitter, but not towards women in general, only towards the man who stole his wife. My own husband has been treated terribly by his mother(s) and other women in his life before I came into it, and is bitter because of it, so I do find bitterness interesting. I have a huge amount of empathy (having a really weird, visible neurological disorder helps with that) and one day, when my children are all grown up, I wouldn’t mind working in the counseling field somehow, possibly with teenagers. I’m learning as much as I can about people before then, and reading widely is my preferred way to do that, as it’s something I can do while helping my husband run our business.


  14. Ace,
    So sorry to hear about what happened to your father. Perhaps your husband doesn’t want you to get “stolen” like your mother. And if he can keep you from advertising the merchandise, in your “comfortable” pants, that might bring his level of concern down. Especially if you actually do look attractive in them. As Swanny River indicated, it must be a growing concern for men these days. Women’s fashion is getting more risqué as morality is also declining. If your husband wants to control how you dress in public, I’d take that as a compliment and showing concern for you and not as part of being a “control Freak”. The term “Control Freak” even sounds a bit Feminist or liberated. Like somebody might say it to object to being controlled. Good for you keeping the extra weight off. Furthermore, if you are trying to win your husband to Christ, or back to Christ, however the case may be, 1 Peter 3 says he needs to see your respectful and pure conduct. I’d recommend asking him to tell you exactly what sort of clothes to wear and then begin wearing exactly what he asks, provided its modest, and erring on the side of modesty when things are in question. Then make a point to share with him that you like wearing what pleases him and only him, and that you want to learn how to please him in more things, because Christ wants you to be the best wife he could possibly have, because Christ loves him. Also just tell him that you respect him, and off and on tell him things you respect about him, while looking into his eyes and being super sincere. I know being respectful can be difficult for wives, so saying it is probably easier than doing it, yet it conveys it just as clearly, so it is an easy way to start, then try to live up to the respect that you’re claiming to have by obeying his attempts to control you. And even thanking him for caring about your life and how you live it. You need to kick your respect and purity into the highest possible realm for the sake of his soul. And God will be pleased with you for doing it.


  15. Sharkly – Thank you for your wise words. You probably have a point – I DO object to being controlled. I’ve told my husband multiple times that I’m not a puppet. I don’t think there is anything I can do that will make a difference as far as my husband and the Lord goes, as there’s a whole lot of factors at play there that have been there since long before he met me. But it will be interesting to see what happens when I put in more effort at being pure and “good”.

    I’ve got what I wanted from this blog (to understand) so I don’t know if I’ll come back again. But it’s been quite enlightening. I truly hope your marriage can be restored. Having separated parents myself (even though I was technically an adult when they separated, it’s still awful) I understand the toll it takes on kids. And when I was separated from my husband…. yeah, it’s not good. Any of it.


  16. Ace,
    You seriously need the help I can give you. I tease you about being a fatty and you keep coming back for more, then I suggest you follow the Bible and submit to your husband, and now you don’t know if you’ll be back again. LOL You’re not a unicorn, just a fairly normal woman, but, I can help you fix that.

    I don’t think there is anything I can do that will make a difference as far as my husband and the Lord goes, as there’s a whole lot of factors at play there that have been there since long before he met me.

    That’s a total cop-out! Of course you don’t know if you can bring your husband to salvation, and of course there are other factors that predate you, but that shouldn’t stop you from investing in your marriage, and in your children’s father, and in doing your best.
    Here’s the plan:
    When your husband sits down in a recliner or on the sofa to relax, quickly go put on your “comfy” pants and a low cut top. Then climb onto his lap and try to curl up and cuddle up to him as close as you can. Tell him that God has been working in your life and that you are starting to see that you want to become a better wife to him. Tell him that you realize you’ve been rebellious and difficult, and that he is a great man and he deserves more respect. Tell Him that you want to obey his wishes because God wants you to be his. Tell him that he owns you, your heart, your body, and your adoration. Tell him that you are sorry for trying to change him by separating from him, that you meant well, but that you now realize that was wrong and ask if he could please forgive you for leaving him.(try to shed tears) Tell him that you vowed to be his “to have and to hold”, and you want to be entirely his for the rest of your life. look in his eyes and tell him you’re proud to think of yourself as being his, and that you want him to have the best wife in the world. Kiss him on the neck. Put your arms around him and pull yourself tight against him. Ask him if there is anything you can do for him, anything at all?
    Try something really close to that, and report back what happened.

    Trust me, I believe your husband has disappointed you many times, but you can bring out the best in him by being his biggest fan, and repenting of your own faults and confessing your sins to him and asking for his forgiveness for what you have done. It will make him want to do the same and when he feels safe trusting you with his heart, if the spirit of God calls his heart, eventually he may also want to repent. it could take a while, or it could be sudden, but go “all in” for God and reverence your husband, he will want to live up to your respect and be your hero. I’ll pray for you.


  17. Sharkly – Your comment came through to my email and I couldn’t resist popping back to say thanks. I do appreciate your wise words, and even though they’re probably not helpful for my situation right now, they might be in the future, and they may also help someone else 🙂

    Right now, my husband and I are getting on fairly well. Our past separations have not been my doing, but his. Substance abuse brings his demons to the surface and he just has to escape. He rants and raves and yells and throws things. He pushes me. He shuts out his family, he is abusive. It’s not him – it’s what the drugs turn him into. And it’s awful.

    The one that actually changed things for us was when he abandoned us in the middle of winter, just up and left with no warning. We got back from my daughter’s school netball practice and he was gone. That night it started to snow, and it didn’t let up for 6 days. We got more than a metre of snow over those 6 days. We lived in the middle of nowhere at that time, 40 minutes drive from the nearest town. The roads were blocked, we lost power, and because we had an electric water pump, we had no water. Even when the power was restored 8 days later, because we hadn’t been able to use the taps, the pipes had all frozen, so we still didn’t have any water. Another bitter male on another site once criticized my pride in my “masculine capabilities” but the thing is, if I wasn’t a capable woman, my children and I would have died. Our food ran out and I couldn’t get to the supermarket due to the roads being shut, so I had to shoot a rabbit, skin it, gut it etc. and cook it on our woodburner, getting snow from outside to melt on the fire to make water for all our needs. Our chopped wood ran out so I had to split some more from the rings out in the paddock – after I’d dug the snow away from them. There was a lot more involved in it than that, but basically, it was up to me, and me alone, to keep the kids alive for the 10 days that we were snowed in with no water, and I did it. The kids even thought it was an adventure! When my husband rocked back up a couple of days later, I took him back without even a thought.

    A year later, when my husband got caught up in drugs and alcohol again, and his loser mates were staying with us all the time, always drunk and stoned, threatening me and scaring my children, and our home life was miserable because my husband was once again abusive (physically and verbally) I was heavily pregnant with our 4th child. He pushed me backwards off chairs, threw me down the hallway, lifted me up the wall by the throat, called me all sorts of names, yelled and swore at me. I took it all. I would advise every single other woman in that situation to call the police and have him charged, but I took it because I knew it was the drugs and not him. He’s a big man – 6’1″ and twice my weight, so he could have really hurt me if he’d tried.

    He left again, without warning. After the last winter, I wasn’t willing to stay in that place when I was due to give birth any day, so I shifted with the kids to be closer to family, and to town where I could get help in an emergency. He used the family court system to force me to move closer to him, so we shifted again. I was completely financially independent. I told him he could see the kids whenever he wanted, but he kept to the access order put in place by the family court. He wanted to come back to me almost straight away, but after the last time he’d left us, I knew that I had the strength to hold out for a change – and after six months of courting me and proving his love and loyalty, we moved back in together, for a fresh start with our bigger family. We’ve been together ever since – that was 7 years ago now – and although he still has relapses, things are much better with us, and he treats me well, for the most part. I won’t tolerate being treated badly anymore and he knows it.

    So that’s where I’m coming from – resisting being 100% submissive more from a place of fear than anything else. I can’t give up that tiny last bit of control, just in case. It’s something we talk about often and he understands my fear, and he’s being patient with me. He’s a good man, and I do respect him. He has the biggest heart of anyone I know, and with time, we will get to that place where we both want to be.


  18. Ace,
    Thank you for the additional details. A lot of that reminds me of many of my years here on the primitive prairie. the well pump shutting down during power outages, frozen pipes, the wood stove. I’m glad you and the kids got through it OK.

    So that’s where I’m coming from – resisting being 100% submissive more from a place of fear than anything else. I can’t give up that tiny last bit of control, just in case.

    1 peter 3:5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; 6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

    Although what you’ve been through sounds tough and it is understandable that you would be afraid to give up control. God wants you to trust in Him and have the faith and hope to make yourself vulnerable for His sake. Letting love conquer your fear.

    1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    Giving up control may sound foolish, but it will bring eternal reward. And you can exchange your control for the power of God.

    John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

    It would be the love of Christ, to be prepared to lay down your life for those you love. I know you have already sacrificed a lot for your marriage. Why not risk the rest? What will retaining that last bit of control cost you in eternity? We don’t know. But we know that God is watching us and wanting us to do whatsoever He commanded us to do, and He will greatly reward those who seek Him with all their hearts, for all eternity to come.

    You won’t get to that place you both want to be “with time”. You need to make the necessary changes. And you could make yours now, stepping out in faith. Maybe you’ll have relapses too, but just step out in faith. How long should your husband have to wait, trying his patience? Maybe he won’t last. Don’t make your love wait.
    Start an affair with your husband, and steal him away from his addictions. Go rock his world and then squeal for more of him. Let him always be ravished with your love. (Proverbs 5:19) YOLO


  19. “Did she choose her own man? Yes!”
    Except not really. Thanks to the conditioning she received thru her formative years at home, in school, via entertainment, she has cultivated an entitlement mentality and even if ‘her own man’ were Chad Thundercock himself, she would STILL exhibit the same mental short-circuiting.
    The why is that she does not enter completely willingly to the marriage contract-covenant. She says ‘I do’ at the altar but her heart has not settled. I believe that in the parlance of today, this is referred to as a covert contract: she goes into the marriage with loaded terms unspoken at the ceremony.
    The whole point of vetting, as a male, is to determine if the one you hold is holding these quiet terms, or if she is freely embracing you as her lord (little ‘L’) in this life.

    “Maybe for the good of all marriages, we need to hunt Chad down and expose him as being a fabricated figmentary fantasy.”
    I don’t see the value in this. Chad exists because he had no father to discipline him in the right way to interact with the world. And in the same vein, women today HAVE fathers who discipline their daughters into the wrong ways of the world.
    * Bring her up on Disney. Placate her in front of a screen that is teaching her the goal in life is to be a princess.
    * Bombard her with the importance of school. Nevermind the commandment for her to honor her mother and father: daddy will instruct her to heed the schools’ authority, usurping his own.
    * Leave her to her own devices in middle school. Be the ATM for momma and her when she cries over boys ‘n stuff. Instead of dealing with problems, let’s placate with materialism.
    * Chase away all potential suitors. Nothing is good enough for daddy’s precious little girl.
    * Fund her escapades in college, and cheer her on when she graduates with her business degree. Nevermind the drinking and slutting that everyone knows was going on, daddy ignores those pesky details because his little girl is so smart and independent now.
    During all these phases, there is daytime talk shows, soap operas, romance novels, movies, social media. ‘Oh she’s just relaxing from hard work’ ‘Oh she’s reading, that’s a good thing!’ ‘Oh she’s out socializing which is healthy’.

    Trying to ‘expose’ Chad for who he really is is pointless. Women already know who he is. They’ve also been fed a life of delusions. On one hand, they know he is not healthy. On the other, they think they are the special snowflake who can tame the beast. Cake, and eat it too.

    Women are not rational creatures, even the most mature and intellectual of women I have met in my life, at a fundamental level, resort to emotion and proxy-loyalty. I remain increasingly convinced that women cannot reason. They can regurgitate logic as academia demonstrates, but source reason is not of women. Why? Because a woman can never be held accountable, ultimately. She has a monopoly on reproduction, and men (some of whom- not all- can reason) know the importance she plays in the preservation of society. Soul-crushing discipline, necessary for upbringing, is never levied as a result. The closest you can get is a woman who has aged past her prime, having executed her duties in this life in the process (chaste as a child, loyal as a wife, faithful as a mother), arriving at an elder age where the eggs are all dried up. She did things out of obedience and now, in hindsight she can see the wisdom and acknowledge it when the male gaze has not fallen on her in decades.
    This, I remain convinced, is why God instructs the elder women in the Church to teach the younger. Because the younger need the demonstration (because they will never know the discipline), and because they cannot reason their way to it.

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Hey, Sharkly! I just discovered your blog (from your most recent posts over at Deep Strength’s place). I feel humbled, and justifiably chastised, that you were able to get your blog up and running before mine (I think mine is going to end up like Westminister Cathedral- unfinished). Very much enjoying catching up on your content!

    Liked by 1 person

  21. ikr,
    she goes into the marriage with loaded terms unspoken at the ceremony.

    So true. For my wife, apparently “submission” and “subjection” meant being compliant with your husband on a few inconsequential decisions that make little difference. But never meant doing anything that you don’t want to do, nor did it apply to anything important. And her mom is such a rebellious, controlling, disrespectful, and spiteful harpy, that by comparison to what she grew up with, my wife feels like she is quite compliant.

    I remain increasingly convinced that women cannot reason.

    That is an interesting thought. Some of the early church fathers wrote statements that were similar, if I recall correctly. I have met smart women who will act entirely based upon their emotion and then can come up with some truly mind boggling logical rationalizations for what they have done. As though they don’t let reason govern their lives, yet they can reason up many complicated excuses, explaining how they’re reactions are not just spoiled and petty, but the product of some “Rube Goldberg machine” reasoning.

    What do you mean by the term “proxy-loyalty“? That term is new to me, and after searching for it online it seems fairly original.


  22. Welcome Feeriker!
    Yeah, I check your Blog spot about every other week or so to see if anything is there yet. And I’m ready to link to it when you put your first post up.
    Boxer had encouraged me to start blogging, instead of only commenting, and for many months I had meant to start. But I think the desire for perfection, other things that needed to be done, and limited time, and no experience ever operating the blogging program, all conspired together to keep me putting it off. However When Dalrock threw me out of the nest, that gave me more motivation, and when my employer suddenly suspended me for five days, that gave me the time to sign up with WordPress, go through the tutorials, and get my first posts up. My manager at work targeted me, in retaliation for repeatedly putting our departments failings in writing and alerting them up the chain of command. They would have fired me, if they didn’t already know I can prove whistleblower retaliation in court and win a wrongful-termination suit against them. They are potentially putting the lives of people like yourself at risk through their poor ethics. Fortunately Sharkly is still there, continuing to risk his job and any chance of advancement, to keep y’all safe. Finding a better job is something I need to get around to doing also. LOL But my wife’s battling keeps me pretty busy, just trying to stay a part of my sons’ lives.
    Anyhow, I look forward to your input here, feeriker, and I’d also encourage you to get your blog rolling, so we have a larger Christian red-pilled online community. Let me know if there is any way I can help.


  23. @sharkly

    In the agricultural world of livestock, there is no telling how a new litter will turn out. The seasoned ranchers carefully examine both the behavioral and physical health of the dam, the sire. Close observation is made at the interactions between the dam and the offspring. Any red flag is treated with great interest. 2 or more red flags, and you walk. Better the devil you know (being sans dog) that the one you don’t (potential of a faulty dog coming home).
    Sounds like your wife’s mother would have provided ample red flags to have walked before the relationship got to that point. Vetting is something young men do not grow up learning.

    The mind of a woman is largely ‘busy machinations.’ Women are not thinking creatures. They are perceptive creatures.

    Proxy loyalty, since I have coined it apparently, means loyalty perceived through another. Who in their circle looks strongest? What is the consensus of the hive mind?
    Like anything, this feature of the female can be used, or abused.
    * Unchecked, she will always look to ‘trade up’ on anything, loyal only in the moment where her loyalty is aligned with those around her.
    * If she has a strong father with discernment, he can properly vet for her. But submission to her father, who gives the ‘all clear’ to a suitor, she can readily submit to him in turn.
    She does not establish her own loyalty, but works off of the loyalty of those around her.


    Welcome. I also have been frequenting your blog for a while now, eager to see a post.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. ikr,
    Yes, I missed one or two red flags about my wife, she did a good job of being a different person while we were dating. And foolishly, I totally wrote off that she was descended from crap, because at least while we were dating, she claimed to be aware of it, and wanting to be led out of their horrendous dysfunction. If you’ve ever watched ‘Jerry Springer’, her family is too low class to be shown by Jerry, otherwise they’d be wanting their 15 minutes of infamy. Literally they are almost entirely low IQ, unambitious, uneducated, obese, lacking morals, loud, entitled, extremely contentious, and close minded to any improvement. In my mind they are a microcosm of exactly what’s wrong with America. I thought, however, that my wife didn’t fit with them. She was ambitious, got a masters degree, is contributing to society, and wasn’t overweight when I married her, and claimed to have gotten saved and be seeking to establish a godly home. I also believed her historical narrative; “I just Got saved a couple years ago, and I’m now moral, and going to multiple Bible studies.”(hit the wall) However 15 years later her historical narrative changed to; “I’ve been saved since I was 10, I must have gotten just a wee bit backslidden while I was thrilled to be ridding the Cock-Carousel, but now I try harder to act Christian”. Unfortunately she and her father don’t speak to each other. I should have noticed that too, but I didn’t until later. I foolishly wasn’t even really looking or caring about her family. In my mind, we were going to “leave and cleave”, and ditch those reprobates. I Guess I was just too horny, and ready to be married. She was attractive to me and I was wanting to bust a nut into her already! I guess you could say, I’d hit the wall myself. I’d achieved success in business, and I was wanting a wife to share it with, and thought I should get one before any more of my hair fell out. She really treated me well while we were dating, and if she treated me half that well while we were married I’d have been happy.

    Unfortunately I’m just now learning all the stuff I should have been watching out for back then. The churchians had taught me to forgive and then marry an immoral woman, and to ignore her pattern of Feminist upbringing.

    I’m still not sure I understand what you mean by “proxy loyalty”. Is it similar to loyalty contingent upon a man’s continued “preselection” amongst a woman’s female peers?


  25. Loyalty, as seen through the eyes of those around her.
    If she submits to her father, she will be loyal to those whom her father has selected.
    If she submits to the hivemind, she will be loyal to those whom the collective has selected.
    She is not discerning (wisdom), she is perceiving (value).

    I can count on 1 hand, quite literally, the number of women I have met in these almost 4 decades who have escaped the feminist narrative while being without strong father. It is worth noting that these exceptions all put their loyalty stock into their Father (capital ‘F’) and did their damndest to perceive a suitable suitor in their circumstances. But, it is also worth noting that none of them had any issues attracting the right kind of man: they were diligent and obedient in their walks and were of high value in the marketplace. The men themselves organically pre-selected before approach.

    Such women are rare, and have formed the imaginations of great authors giving rise to the fairy tale of a faithful bride-to-be waiting years for her man to return (eg. Count of Monte Cristo, Odysseus etc).
    Such women are rare, and are the topic of an entire chapter in Proverbs.

    The exception having been accounted for, QED.

    Liked by 2 people

  26. Such women are rare, and are the topic of an entire chapter in Proverbs.

    I told one pastor that due to my wife, I was becoming the “Proverbs 31 man”. LOL
    Proverbs 31:3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
    Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

    I tried turning to alcohol, but it just makes me sick, and I get no positive effects from it at all. Doh!


  27. I hope i can get some advice or at least an opinion with this… it goes…my husband and I are both christian. He was raised Baptist –I was raised Catholic. When we married we attended Baptist Chruch. We have been married a number of years.

    But he outright refuses to be a leader. I want to follow my husband’s leading and decisions in order to be obedient to God….yet he will not lead nor make decisions of any kind.

    Here is what he told me or words to that effect. —-” You are a capable individual, God gave you a smart independent brain, a good mind and will and personality and ability to make decisions all on your own. You will stand before God to give accoount of your life just as I will stand before God to give account of mine. It is your responsibility to have a relationship with God through Jesus as it is my responsibility to do the same. I do not need to be lord over you as you already have a Lord and I will not take His place. “

    I have tried to tell him the bible says I am the weaker vessel, created to be “owned” by him body and soul and basically have no capability of making my own decisions and that I am to always ask his permission on affairs of the home and our marriage. He will have none of it.

    The closest I can find to his mind set is an egalitarian approach to our marriage, where as I have read (and I do a lot of research) is that many of those who read the bible say patriarchy is how God set up the role of marriage.

    I would love to have your opinion on this situation.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. EsbeeSue,
    Welcome! You are in luck, my brother Deep-Strength recently did a post about your question.
    The comments, so far, are good also.

    I would also ask you how your relationship is otherwise? Are there other substantial areas that also disappoint you, or is that about the only thing? And be honest, so that I can be of better help.

    What you are describing is so polar opposite of myself, that I have not put a lot of mental energy into figuring out how to deal with a wife who wants to submit more than her husband wants to lead. LOL I don’t think that would ever be a problem for me. I have been in a battle for control of my marriage since it began. My wife was quite submissive, and respectful right up until the wedding, then she instantly changed into a completely different person who actively tried to be everything I would despise. She has intimacy anorexia. She intentionally sabotages the marriage by intentionally making herself completely unacceptable to me. And any attempt by myself to resolve our differences and reconcile is met by anger and further distancing behaviors. The point being I think she is defiant and doesn’t let me lead, just to piss me off. She prefers if I pick the restaurant, so she can spend the whole meal telling me how I picked the wrong place, and if I knew her or cared for her I’d have known to pick some other place. Even when I take her to her favorite restaurant, she bitches that she didn’t want to go there then, and that we can’t afford it or some other nonsense. She fights my leadership just to destroy all the intimacy that would accrue from her letting me lead my own family. Sorry, now I’m bellyaching about the opposite of your issue. LOL


  29. EsbeeSue – i saw your comment and Sharkly’s response and thought i’d share a few thoughts on this.

    i think the link to Deep Strength’s post and the comments, especially janesmelancholymusings, are really good.

    one other thought i’d add to that is that we have to adapt to our *own* husband. i think that’s really hard to do, sometimes, especially when our view of what marriage should look like is very different from what our marriage actually is.

    my Husband is very laid back and is not only okay with me running some things but appreciative that i do so … except when he isn’t. the list of things where he isn’t is very small. idk if that’s b/c he likes the way i run things or if it’s his personality or a combination of both. there have been many times i’ve wished he would be more aggressive in various areas. sometimes he’s willing to do so, other times he isn’t.

    if i look around at what i perceive to be super-leader-men and see what i perceive they are like in their own homes, i can become discouraged and think my Husband isn’t living up to what i think he should be. however, if i keep my focus only on my own Husband and how he desires me to be and our home to run, then i am more content.

    i’ve said it often … i can make my Husband out to be the most horrible man or the best man by what i focus on. because no man is perfect. every marriage has ‘something.’ every man has ‘something,’ and every woman has ‘something,’ and when we choose to adapt to our own somethings, we become more content.

    i really, really, really like what janesmelancholymusings said here (
    So for me the question had to change from how can I get my husband to lead? to how can I be more submissive? and how can I be content when things don’t go my way.

    and that’s essentially what i’ve always taught women. we can’t change what our Husband does, or what anyone else does, we can only change ourselves and put our efforts into lining up our own selves and our own heart, thoughts, and behavior, according to God’s Word.

    i think another really important thing in all of this is that, as is also true of every woman, EVERY man is imperfect, and EVERY man makes mistakes, and EVERY man will make mistakes that cost his wife something – including those men we perceive to be better than our man. and we, when we say “I do,” choose to accept those mistakes and consequences and to do so graciously. but it’s necessary. it’s imperative. and we have to focus here b/c we want to think that other men who are more ____ would not have made that mistake, but we’re wrong. all men make mistakes, as do all women. and in marriage we both have to accept these things and learn to continually exercise forgiveness and acceptance. (i always feel like i need to add a caveat that i’m not talking about real abuse here; if anyone is experiencing real abuse, man or woman or child, they need to seek help immediately).

    within all of this, it sounds like it’s a burden for you to have to make the decisions your Husband has placed on you. if he continues to choose to place these burdens on you, then, imo, it is imperative that you continuously take these to Jesus and ask Him to help and enable you to do and be and become the wife *your* Husband expects and desires. and i can pretty much guarantee you that every wife must do this at least once in the life of her marriage, if not more. because we’re human. and selfish, and hormonal. we all come to a point, if we’re married long enough, where we have to do just that.


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