Help Me Put My Boys’ Home Back Together

A Threefold Cord of Masculinity

My boys were all smiles after finally pinning their father during a wrestling match.

I need your help!

I am trying to get my wife’s church to put some pressure on my wife to get her to attend some joint counselling to address her Intimacy-Anorexia and to try to reconcile our marriage and our boys’ home.  However, being a typical churchian cult of woman-worship, it is going to take some serious effort to get them to ask my wife to submit to her husband and submit to getting the treatment she needs.  She, like a typical addict, is in denial about her behavioral addiction, and has been doing everything she can to avoid getting treatment to reverse the destruction her addiction has caused and the divorce it has led her to file.  There are other issues, with her spiritually, but I don’t think I’ll have any luck addressing them until she is free of the great bondage of the behavioral addiction that is blinding her to reality and keeping her emotionally and morally stunted.  I have tried addressing her spiritual issues in her current state and am not able to make any progress with her.  Currently she returns only evil for good and feels completely entitled to do so.  Her selfish insistence on staying in bondage to addiction is not fair to our boys who have seen their home and lives ripped apart, and are really suffering as a result of their broken home.

So, I have started a new website where I will be calling out my wife’s church, which has so far refused to do anything but cheer her on in her divorce.  At this point, I just have the first two posts up, but I will try to quickly get another 5 or so that I have planned written and up there in the next couple weeks.  Also I am going to publish them in a bit of an escalating fashion with the most damning posts coming towards the end of the posts that I currently have planned.  After those posts, I will make more geared towards teaching people what is wrong with churches like that, and how a church that follows God should act.  I haven’t heard of this being tried before, but I’m going to see if I can get my wife’s church to at least pretend to be God followers for a bit.  I have been warned that it is hard to shame whores, so I don’t know if I’ll be able to make my wife’s church behave any better, but at this point I’m about out of time and don’t see the cunt-court being likely to help me get my wife the help she needs to put our family back together in the best interest of the children.

The moderation at the other site will be different, in that I won’t be allowing trolls to participate, since my family is on the line.  But, for all of the rest of you, I could sure use your help, by visiting the new site and commenting, following the new blog to show your support and get notified of new posts, and contacting the church.  I have the churches contact info on the sidebar.  I expect if they respond back to you, it will be with lies and excuses, as it has been their pattern, just ignore their excuses, and take their slander with a grain of salt.  I’m sure my wife has told them lies, and they seem to really want to believe all women about everything.  Also, since they worship women, it would help if I also got a lot of participation from women, because that might give them the “moral backing” to hold one “goddess” accountable to scripture, if a bunch of other women are asking them to.

Please read the “My Marriage” post first, as it lays out the overall story.  Feel free to ask questions or leave comments here as well.  I gave those hirelings over 2 years to handle this privately, but they continually refused, so now I’ll be turning a light on those roaches and exposing their wickedness.  Help me stomp them!

81 thoughts on “Help Me Put My Boys’ Home Back Together

  1. Dear God. I couldn’t read all of that. Still not sure if I’m being trolled.

    With all respect and kindness, you have a problem deep down that you need to address. Nothing else can make a rich, handsome man fly across the country to meet and marry a low value woman, let alone put up with all the nonsense that followed.

    Lawyer up, get it over with, and turn your attention inwards to figure out what the hell went wrong.

    The church is the least of your problems.

    Liked by 4 people

  2. Welcome Farm Boy,
    I actually think it is probably harder on her even than she makes it on me. Her GAD Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and MDD Major Depressive Disorder, are likely from having the deep subconscious fear of intimacy, never opening up to anyone, and living a sham life, and her PTSD was probably caused by the same misuse that led her to fear all intimacy. But yes, she always doubles down, she has to “win” at all cost. Her addiction doesn’t seem to care what it costs her or anyone else.

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  3. Welcome Nikolai Vladivostok,
    I wish I was just trolling! LOL
    I had a lot of blue-pill conditioning when I got married, and she was a completely different person when we were dating, but yes it was a stupid choice on my part. I’d like to help other people not fall into the same trap. But, I do love her,(not like an emotion, but that I want the best for her) and I’d really like to get her the help so she can be rehabilitated, so we can have some good years, and the boys can get their home put back together to see a functioning marriage. And the church is God’s problem, but since I am a servant of God, that makes it my problem too.

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  4. Thanks, Farm Boy. The boys are 11 and 13 now. Yeah, I feel horrible for them. They are the main reason why I’m trying to get back together with a wife who clearly is not a God follower, despite her claims.

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  5. It took me almost 6 months to get my wife just to email me some digital photos of the boys and I. She took the computer with all our photos when she moved out. I had asked for that particular photo to make a keepsake item for the boys, originally wanting to give it to them for Christmas. I just got the photo a few days back and ordered them a woven photo blanket. I hope it turns out well, if it does, I may order a couple more, so we can each have one.
    I think it is funny how the youngest one has food smeared all around his mouth. He obviously joined in the wrestling match before we could get his face wiped off.

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  6. “I’d really like to get her the help so she can be rehabilitated, so we can have some good years, and the boys can get their home put back together to see a functioning marriage.”

    That’s never going to happen. You are not facing reality. I’ll leave you in peace, all the best.

    Liked by 6 people

  7. Sharkly, I’ve read the first two posts at your new site. I’m amazed at the similarities between your marriage and my first marriage. Sad to say, I don’t believe there is any hope of “converting” your wife and resurrecting your marriage. Although your expectations and demands may indeed be Biblical, it will only drive her further into rebellion. She doesn’t need discipline as much as she needs the opportunity to experience true sorrow and repentance over the error of her ways. If she left you (instead of the other way around), and she wants a divorce, I would consider that to be an ugly blessing. I urge you to think about how you can exit this catastrophe with a minimum amount of damage to you and your boys, and give her the freedom to resolve her issues on her own terms.
    But more important than my opinion, you must decide for yourself what God wants you to do.
    All the best~!

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  8. I have not visited your new site but I just wanted to say you have gorgeous boys! That is a really beautiful photo. So much love in it. And at 11 and 13, they need their dad so much at that age! I know that my husband had to be so much more involved as our oldest son entered his teens, teaching him to be a man and how to act/react was something he had to learn from his father. I couldn’t teach it to him. I pray that you are successful in bringing your family back together, for them.

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  9. Yeah, the boys were super duper cute then, I wish I could have froze them at that age. And the wife too. LOL I’m the only one that is constantly getting better with age.

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  10. There isn’t a lot on this site I agree with but I understand your determination to do the best for your son’s and that is wonderful and admirable. I truly wish you the best. God bless and keep fighting!

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  11. absolutely adorable pic!

    6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, 7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.

    8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. 11 To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. I Peter 5:6-11

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  12. I posted a tidbit of Bible teaching on my new site where I will confront the forces of spiritual evil aligned against my marriage. I gave God’s holy word to those dogs! LOL Stay tuned for much more over there, I haven’t brought out the worst of their wickedness yet, but we’ll get to it in a few more posts. I reckon the real battle is about to start in the next week or two. And I welcome y’all to help me battle them as I also offer to help y’all as your brother in Christ.

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  13. I will go to the new site. I like the tactic. It gives opportunity to your wife and now her church to confess and turn from their sins. May God bless this effort.

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  14. Thanks Boxer,
    I appreciate all the help I can get in exposing these homewreckers and exposing how they refuse to do anything but aid and abet my wife’s frivolous divorce. As of yet I still have not exposed the worst of their wickedness, It is still to come.

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  15. I just popped another mild post up over there calling the home wrecking church to work works in accordance with repentance, and profiling a couple more cowards by name.

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  16. Hi Sharkly.

    You and I havent interacted very much, and I’ll admit I’m not really familiar with your writings other than seeing them at Dalrock and now at Jack’s place (SigmaFrame).

    I am going to tell you some very hard things along the same lines as Nikolai did up there. I urge you to find the courage to face the truth here. I have read and skimmed over your “My Marriage” post at the other blog. I’ve read this post as well.

    Your marriage cannot be salvaged. Your marriage is over. You cannot make your estranged wife come back to you. You cannot make her be your wife. She doesn’t want to be your wife. I don’t think she’s physically, mentally, emotionally or spiritually capable of being your wife, or any man’s wife.

    I do not know why. I do not know if she has a mental disorder (I’ve never heard of “intimacy anorexia”), or if she is a sociopath, or if she just hates you for one reason or another. For your sake, I don’t really care. I don’t care about her. I’m not talking to her. I care about you and your sons.

    For your sake, for theirs, you need to LET HER GO. Get a lawyer, figure out what your rights and duties are, do what the lawyer advises, offer her a deal with a reasonable and fair property division and settlement, and get the divorce over with. There is a time and purpose for everything under heaven, including a time to give up and to throw away (Eccl. 3:6). It’s time to give her up, give this marriage up, end the marriage, and let her go.

    Know that the reason the marriage cannot be saved is not because of you, but is because of her. You’ve done all you could possibly do to save it. You can leave with a clear conscience knowing that. But what you’re doing now is not saving your marriage. What you’re doing now is obsessing you, consuming you, and will ultimately destroy you. And I am concerned about what all of this is doing to you.

    “But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.” (I Cor. 7:15) You must treat her as an unbeliever. She is acting as an unbeliever. She did not keep her marriage vows. She had emotional affairs. Sharkly, it’s very very likely she had physical affairs too. There’s a whole, whole lot of smoke there: Talking to past lovers. Friending them on social media. Having explicit conversations. Her receiving dick pics (and her probably sending them explicit photos of herself). These things suggest a woman who simply does not want to be, and cannot be, married to you.

    I urge you to let this go. Let her go. It’s over. It cannot be fixed, repaired, or salvaged. Do it for your sake, and for the sake of your sons. Let your sons see a man who loved God and tried. Let your sons see a man who obeyed God and who gave it his best shot. But also, let them see a man who understood and faced reality. Let them see a man who knew when it was time to cut his losses. Let them see a man who was able to let go, and then was able to bounce back and rebuild his life.

    Because that, Sharkly, is what your boys need now. They need an end to the strife. They need to see a man, you, their father, able to act wisely, prudently, and decisively in his own best interests. Because, Sharkly, the time will come when your boys will have to do that for themselves, and they will be able to look to you as the example.

    And then, when you have let her go, you need to do what Nikolai said up there and look inward.

    There is no way a wealthy, handsome man like yourself should have been flying across the country to meet women on online dating sites, even Christian sites. A man like you should have been able to find and attract women in your own locale or close to it. A man like you would have been, or should have been, EXTREMELY attractive to women all around you. Either you didn’t see it or you were doing something to repel women or women were attracted to you and you failed to act.

    Something in you wasn’t working correctly when you met, dated, courted, and married your wife. You didn’t choose wisely. You were unable to see that she wasn’t right for you. Or you did see it and you ignored it. You either didn’t see the red flags because you didn’t know enough to identify them, or you saw them and ignored them.

    And it’s probably not your fault. I had much the same upbringing as you did, though I was much more limited in my resources and ability to find suitable women. Look, man: Everyone lied to you growing up. there’s no getting around that. Your parents, your teachers, civic leaders, the men you knew, the adults around you – they all lied to you. Girls lied to you. Everyone lied to you. You didn’t pick it up like most others did. You got used and taken advantage of.

    But now you know. Now you understand it. Now you understand how women work. Now you can see the red flags. You know now to avoid them.

    Use that knowledge to rebuild your life, a life without your wife. End this idea of changing everyone around you and getting them to help your wife. End this idea of changing your wife. Abandon this idea of holding her, other men, other women, and a church, accountable. Forget that. There are no systemic solutions. There are only individual ones. Stop playing Don Quixote and tilting at windmills. Stop entertaining this foolish notion that you can fix the system. You can’t. You cannot change others. You can change only yourself. Direct all this energy to changing YOURSELF and teaching your sons what the adults in your life didn’t teach you or that you didn’t learn. Devote your energies to your sons, who really need to learn what you’ve learned.

    You learned it the hard way. Help your sons learn it the easier way. Help them so hopefully they will not go through what you went through. Help them so they will not suffer as you did. You cannot help your wife and you cannot save your marriage. Let them go. Save what can be saved: Yourself, your sons, your sanity, and your future.

    Let them go.

    Liked by 3 people

  17. Another thing:

    Your boys’ home as it exists now cannot be put back together. Your wife destroyed it to the point that not one stone remains standing. The best that can be done now is to give them a different home, one you have built yourself, and one that works according to biblical principles and Red Pill truths.

    I can’t, and won’t, help you reassemble a home built on the folly of returning a mentally ill, spiritually blind wife to you. That’s a foundation of sand. I will help you build a new home on the rock of the Red Pill and on the Rock. The latter is all that can be done now.

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  18. Deti,

    “Your marriage cannot be salvaged. Your marriage is over. You cannot make your estranged wife come back to you. You cannot make her be your wife.”

    I think you and Nikolai are being too pessimistic here. I am not saying that the odds are high, I am saying that the odds are very, very slim, but could happen. Three reasons why this could work:

    1. Sharkly saw noticeable improvement in his wife when a counseling pastor held her feet to the fire. If he could find another pastor to do that, then more improvement could be had.
    2. Sharkly found a counselor that has a 90% success rate treating intimacy anorexia. Of course both parties have to be willing and that is why I do say the odds are still very slim for success. But if a strong, firm pastor insisted that she go to this counselor, maybe she would go with some openness.
    3. Most of us have not seen this done before, a wrongly divorced guy rallying commenters to shame a church and it’s leaders. Before the internet and inexpensive websites, this was not doable. Maybe this will work.

    Even if this does not work for Sharkly, it does seem like a good idea to expose the foolishness of the Seeker Friendly church movement; “come as you are”, “everyone is welcome”, women pastors so we can be relate-able, etc.

    Thinking out loud here, and this is where I and Sharkly could be totally wrong; the Scripture you shared from 1 Corinth. 7 says to let the unbelieving spouse go in peace. Maybe fighting against her leaving and the public shaming of her enablers is not letting go in peace.

    Liked by 2 people

  19. thedeti,
    Welcome, and thank you for your caring and taking the time to write out your advice. I really do appreciate that. I also have read your comments around the man-o-sphere, and I have found them to mostly be quite wise and insightful. You see a lot. Your reading comprehension must be excellent because your synopsis of my situation is right on. I hope I can get you to continue to contribute that wisdom here.

    Bee is also right, “Most of us have not seen this done before, a wrongly divorced guy rallying commenters to shame a church and it’s leaders.” Although I haven’t researched if others have done it, The story of Hosea is as close of a parallel as I’m aware of. Hosea was the only mortal man ever selected by God to divinely and inspiredly illustrate God’s own love to the nation of Israel, and Hosea’s story is recorded for the instruction of all mankind.
    Hosea seemingly made his dispute with his wife, and God’s dispute with that generation of Israel, as public as possible. He even named her second child “Loammi” which means “you are not mine”, so that every single person who ever heard of that child, would perceive Hosea’s message of condemnation of his wife Gomer’s adultery, and perhaps also perceive God’s condemnation of Israel through the prophet. And Hosea illustrated God’s perfect love when he enlisted his children telling them to encourage each other to join in calling for their mother to quit being a whore:
    Hosea 2:1 Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah. 2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;
    Although that may shame the wife, that was an act of divine love for her, and it was loving, instructional, and in the best interest of the children to ask the children to both obey their father and to ask their mother to quit being an unfaithful adulterer. So God has shown us.

    When I once tried to use the book of Hosea to remind a blue-pilled goofball at my wife’s church, that women can and do reject divinely perfect love.(and thus most of them are on the broad road to hell) He tried to tell me that the story of Hosea was just an analogy, and that it never really happened. I asked that Biblically ignorant fool, “Then why did God give us Gomer’s father’s name, “Diblaim”, and eternally shame the man for raising his daughter to be a harlot?” Of course the goofball had no response, because, like so many woman-worshippers, he was just too ignorant of the book of Hosea to know it.

    Anyhow, yes, you are right, that like Hosea I am unequally yoked to an unfaithful mess. And Unlike Hosea God didn’t ask me to marry her, that was partly my own foolishness and blue-pill conditioning, and partly due to her deception. She actively engaged in many types of intimacy she hates, being the complete opposite of who she has been ever since then, to deceive me and in fact lure me into thinking she was somebody she was not, so that I would marry her, believing she would be loving and respectful and committed to growing in a Christian life towards further sanctification. Within a week of the wedding she had made it clear that had been a ruse and I was going to suffer greatly for my naïveté.

    I have spent at least the last 18 years of my marriage praying for wisdom, and searching for wisdom. And I can tell you, Deti, that you certainly offer the best of wisdom this world has to offer, and some parts of it are even Biblical. However, as I mentioned elsewhere, I have counted the cost, I count all my earthly things, including my children, as already lost, I have resolved myself, I have a rough plan, I have crossed the Rubicon, I have begun my fight, and I am recruiting others to join me in this unprecedented new battle exposing churchians’ apostasy, and calling for their repentance from their homewrecking ways. Perhaps this can pioneer a pattern for how a large group of Godfearing men can work publicly to bring the dogs running lawless churches to heal, by exposing their wickedness, and how they join in on the side of unfaithfulness, and divorce.

    Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; 33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. 34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. 35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    My family is under siege, and I am going to be Christ to them, I will not stand down, and I am prepared to contend, with nothing “off the table” even up to the giving of my life. If every single divorce lawyer in the whole world calls me a complete fool, I’ll still ignore every last one of those hell-bound workers of iniquity who, for hire, defy Jesus Christ by separating what God has joined together, of which Christ said “let no man separate”.(Matthew 19:6) Repent divorce lawyers! One of You might even be redeemable from hell.

    I am asking any who will, as mentioned in the passage above, to become “companions of them that were so used”. I believe many of you also “were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions” similar to mine, and so y’all should be my most natural allies.

    I have most certainly got the patience and persistence required, to fight for what little time is left until my wife does whatever she chooses. If she completes her frivolous divorce in court, then we are separated, and as you reminded us, I am not under bondage to a woman who has refused to follow Jesus Christ. However my enmity with the serpent and his children in the apostate churches, is eternal, and exposing and reproving their wicked deeds is “what is acceptable unto the Lord.”
    Ephesians 5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

    I keep finding more great truth in this following passage:
    Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

    Some might claim I have a messianic complex, but it comes from the Bible. I, as husband, am the head and my wife is like my own body. 1 Corinthians 7:4 explains that my wife’s body belongs to me, I own it. As verse 23 above explains, I, like Jesus Christ, am to be my wife’s savior. I literally am to be ready to give my life to save her soul from her own wickedness. Now the deceived churchians have all sorts of ways to throw me under the bus, and they will offer me a myriad of ways to die to my masculinity and subjugate myself, the image and glory of God, to a weaker vessel, but do not be deceived, their plans for husbands’ emasculation and denigration, do nothing to make wives respectful of the image of God, and to bring about the shamefacedness that God asks God-following women to rightfully adorn themselves with. No, on the contrary, if I die, I die fighting those shitheads who lead women like my wife into rebellion, I don’t die through seeking alignment with their satanic cuckoldry.

    “I am my beloved’s, and my beloved is mine.” And that is why, because I love her like Christ, that I need to show my disapproval and discipline her, until she repents of her wickedness, comes clean, and return’s to following God.

    Stop entertaining this foolish notion that you can fix the system.
    LOL That’s my job! That is our job as servants of the Most High God.
    Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    Don’t give up so easily.
    What you’re doing now is obsessing …
    Actually, I have been anointed by God with the wisdom to fight these cowards, and I am making that my mission, to combat their false teaching and blasphemies against God and men who are in His image. And I now have the firm foundation. I now know that I am a god, a likeness of Christ, a savior, and that it is my divine birthright to be a son of God, and that Satan wants to deceive men out of that. And even though there may not be one stone left standing, with my wife, I will work to turn her to repentance, to save her soul and body from hell by cleansing her relentlessly with the word of God, and opposing all the churchians, lawyers, bitches, whores, manginas, and “White Knights” who lead her astray from the blood of Jesus Christ. God is in this battle. And God will use whom He will, those who are willing to be used, to fight in this fight. I’m not asking for anybody to help me reassemble my old blue-pill home that my wife tore apart. I’m asking for you to help me fight an apostate church, so that I might be able to free her from mental bondage, to attempt to save her soul, and rebuild a home where I rule and she submits as our loving God desires it. I’m asking for you to be the true church and help pioneer a modern internet based system of prying rebellious wives out from Satan’s churchian false churches clutches, and bringing the power of God’s word to bear against the root of Feminism(women usurping the image and glory of God), as first taught by the Mother of Harlots to all these whoring daughter churches, making women insufferably infatuated with delusions of a goddess within them, when they are not any image of deity, only the flesh and bone of men, and due to be shamefaced for their many wrongs, their incessant waywardness, and their defiling natures.

    Join me in proclaiming the truth that has the power to set people free!

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  20. 1. Sharkly saw noticeable improvement in his wife when –a counseling pastor held her feet to the fire. If he could find another pastor to do that, then more improvement could be had.

    The bolded part is a very big part of the problem. Finding a counseling pastor, or even a professional Christian counselor who isn’t pussywhipped/cunt-worshiping and who will hold THE WIFE accountable for her behavior within the marriage is nigh on impossible today. Sharkly might very well have found the last of a dying breed in the pastor who successfully got his wife started on the right path. If so, that’s a tragic and horrifying indictment on the state of both the church and the Christian Counseling profession.

    Beyond that, my own experience of having walked in shoes very similar to Sharky’s leads me to endorse Deti’s and Nikolai’s conclusions, although certainly without enthusiasm. I, too, resisted that conclusion and fought tooth and nail to salvage my first marriage, but ultimately realized that it was impossible. It takes two to make a marriage work, but only one to destroy it. When one half makes it clear that they are determined that the marriage is over, it’s over.

    And yes, too, to 1 Corinthians 7:15. It doesn’t matter if the wife parks her oversized butt in the pews of an apostate church every Sunday morning and says “Lord, Lord” along with the rest of the pretenders. If the way she is living her life clearly spits in the face of Christ, His Gospel, and His commandments, then she is an unbeliever and should be treated as such. Trying to salvage a marriage to her is like trying to keep poison in your body rather than flushing it out.

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  21. Sharkly:

    So be it then. I wish you the best, and I wish you peace as you do so. I endorse Feeriker’s statement up there. I did not offer my advice lightly or for transient cause. I offered it because I don’t see any other feasible end to this for you and for your sons. I lack your passion for this cause, and I certainly would not sacrifice my sons on this altar or make them die on this hill with me.

    I really do wish you the best, seriously. I hope for your sake and for your sons’ sake, that this all reaches a swift and profitable end for all three of you, or at least, an end that does the least damage.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Just to be clear, as a follow-up to my last post: while I might be pessimistic about saving Sharkly’s marriage, I am wholeheartedly on board with exposing, shaming, and, if they persist in the error of their ways, hopefully helping to precipitate events that will destroy Whitewater Community “Church” and others just like it. These churchian organizations are a cancer on the Body of Christ!

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  23. Sharkly,
    Reading your story is heartbreaking and somewhat alarming. As Deti and others have commented, your marriage, sadly, is long over. Your wife clearly wants absolutely nothing to do with you and this whole “intimacy anorexia” reason/excuse/explanation is a bit ridiculous; she may in fact have the disorder but she sure didn’t seem to have it when dealing with all the other men in her life (based on your descriptions of her relationships). One has to wonder if she has Intimacy Anorexia or just Intimacy Anorexia for you. I realize it’s easier for you to justify her rejection and revulsion for you if you label it as a behavioral disorder (her fault) but it really doesn’t matter. The fact is, she seems to hate you and there is no way she is going to go to a pastor who will “hold her feet to the fire” causing her to suddenly find you irresistible and run home to be your completely submissive wife; the wife who will call you a lord and a god and will wholeheartedly agree with you that women are inferior human beings compared to men. A wife who will submit to sex on demand, head coverings in church and agree that she is to follow your lead and commands in every regard and run to a counselor to deal with her behavioral disorder just to please you. Do you truly believe that is even a possibility? She is NOT going to do this in the name of God to uphold her marriage vows no matter how much you beat her over the head with The Bible. It is obvious to anyone who reads this blog that your marriage is a sham. It seems like your wife NEVER liked or loved you and one has to wonder how this mess went on for 18 years. Keep in mind that I am basing this on things you have written not assumptions I’m making myself.
    I can see that you are one a crusade to prove her church wrong and you don’t care what the fallout is; you seem to believe you are called by God to do this even at the expense of your sons. I hope this divorce is final very soon and that at that point you will let.your.wife.go. Hopefully, you will accept that You are NO longer married to her, responsible for her, etc. If you continue this vendetta against your wife and church after the hopefully soon to be divorce, you will surely end up with problems much greater than you currently have.
    I know you are doing all of this in the name of God and probably won’t quit since you seem to be a complete martyr but please, please, please think of the damage you are causing your sons and you surely ARE causing damage whether you admit that or not.. Yes, I know it’s all your wife’s fault for starting this divorce but for your sons’ sake, cut your losses and move on.
    Her church is not going to change their ways and it’s inconceivable that you are going to waste your time trying to get them to; I’m guessing they are already looking at possible legal actions to take as you ramp up your attack.
    Let it go already and enjoy the time you have with your sons who will soon be grown up and gone. You’re wasting time and energy on people who couldn’t care less. You seem like an intelligent, God loving man who wants to do the right thing but you’re spending your energy casting pearls before swine. Please pull it together for your sons and stop using valuable time and energy trying to prove you are right and they are wrong….they don’t care and they will continue to ignore you and your obsessive need to show them how wrong they all are.
    God bless.

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  24. Deti fought faithfully for his marriage in ways I have not, so I don’t say this argumentively. If the likely divorce comes to pass next month, then Sharkly’s sons need prayer for knowing to reject their mother, follow God, and yet to somehow still honor her.
    I don’t know what honoring a woman like that would look like, but if they are to follow the Lord, then they’ll need great maturity to do that, and yet to reject all of her dark and sinful manipulations. Maybe a new wife and red pill home will be the incubator for his sons to grow that way, but if not, they need our prayers, which you are probably already doing since you are reading and commenting here.
    Your willingness to go to war was blessed by God, and Sharkly had a later stage intervention in his marriage than yours perhaps, so I can see your advice as being consistent with what you (and Feeriker and Nikolai) have learned. However, I see Sharkly being faithful also, even though it is from a weak position, tactically speaking, compared with when you drew the line for your wife. But he has written before, and maybe you didn’t see it, but if the divorce is made final, then that is when he plans to apply I Cor 7.

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  25. I have posted another post at the battle front. The next two upcoming posts I have planned should really expose the level of depravity and hypocrisy of Christo-Feminist Whitewater Community Church. Then once that is in place, I’ll begin to escalate my feud with those worthless idolatrous cowardly cunt-worshippers to the next level, while continuing to post instructional posts regarding their Feminist false teaching.

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  26. Sharkly’s sons need prayer for knowing to reject their mother, follow God, and yet to somehow still honor her.
    I don’t know what honoring a woman like that would look like, but if they are to follow the Lord, then they’ll need great maturity to do that, and yet to reject all of her dark and sinful manipulations.

    i had to do this with my daughters when they were young re their father. he and his parents were doing such horrible things to them that my nine year old daughter became suicidal 😦 . i knew that she still needed to honor her father as the bible instructs, but i needed to find a way for her to protect herself when with him/them.

    so we got out a piece of construction paper and markers. at the top we looked up and wrote down the verses that instruct children to obey their parents.

    then we came up with a list, and wrote it down, of ways she could do that and still protect herself. one was coughing b/c they were the type who would then be concerned with her cough and stop what they were doing. another was telling them she needed to use the restroom b/c they were the type who wouldn’t stop her from going to the bathroom. there were a few others that i don’t remember now.

    we hung it in her closet where her dad wouldn’t see if if he happened to come into the house (which he rarely did, but i needed to protect her).

    it gave her some power over herself, some control. and also taught her that she needed to honor her father.

    i also got her into counseling. again. iirc, that was when she went to a support group for kids her age of divorce – turned out to be extremely beneficial for her (would not have been for her sister; different personalities).

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  27. Welcome Blackjack,
    Your wife clearly wants absolutely nothing to do with you and this whole “intimacy anorexia” reason/excuse/explanation is a bit ridiculous; she may in fact have the disorder but she sure didn’t seem to have it when dealing with all the other men in her life (based on your descriptions of her relationships). One has to wonder if she has Intimacy Anorexia or just Intimacy Anorexia for you.

    Unfortunately that is how intimacy-anorexia works. Only the current partner is a threat of wanting intimacy. They will devalue their current partner, and artificially idealize past and potential future partners. And in her mind, she imagines the people that she has her internet affairs with will not want any intimacy either. However if she does leave me and get into an intimate long term relationship with one of them, she will likely almost immediately start devaluing and distancing them, and will then probably tell them how much better I was regarding various things. She had relationships with those same guys previously and they did not work out. While those guys may want to have sex with her, she dreams delusionally that they are wanting to be in a platonic roommate relationship where they pay the bills and watch the kids, and get nothing in return.

    A wife who will submit to sex on demand, head coverings in church and agree that she is to follow your lead and commands in every regard and run to a counselor to deal with her behavioral disorder just to please you. Do you truly believe that is even a possibility?

    1 Corinthians 13:7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    Do I think it is a good possibility? No. But Redemption may be possible. A slightly more likely scenario, if I could get her to the therapy, is that we can provide our children with a typical home, even though she does not follow God, except superficially like her churchian friends.

    You’re wasting time and energy on people who couldn’t care less.

    LOL They will care someday! If I am serving God, then my time is not wasted. God’s prophets who spoke to people who ignored them or murdered them, were not wasting their time any more or less than the prophets who turned many to righteousness. We often judge the merit of things based entirely upon the earthly outcome, and that is wrong. If every churchian husband getting frivorced did what I’m doing, the churches would take the path of least resistance, and try to avoid such events. Whereas when every churchian husband who is told to, “shut up, stand down, get the divorce, and move on”, complies with that script, then we arrive where we are today, where the churches can happily process serial marriages without regard to the Bible. You also seem to imply that you disagree with how Hosea, who was living out the love of God, related to his illegitimate kids, or imply that standing on principles, like I intend to do, is going to be harmful to my sons. I am doing everything I can to rescue their family from destruction for them. If in fact my wife would do all I want her to do, our kids would have one of the best homes on earth. So, it is my wife’s rebellion that is the problem, not my damage control. Clearly I am an idealist, and your comment seems pragmatistic.

    While I’m not asking for y’all to believe my wife will be redeemed, or even reconciled, I do think some of y’all are missing an opportunity to fight the good fight with a Christian brother who is being wronged with the help of a feminized church. I assume many of you can relate.
    I think a lot of postulating goes on in the manosphere with very little trial or application. So many people are ready to regard any effort as wasted and ineffectual,(black-pill) to seemingly justify doing nothing but accepting crappy treatment as their lot in life. While I have endured a ton of crap, I never once have accepted that portion of crap that was unjustly put upon me, as being my lot in life. I may be ready to be a martyr, like most of the apostles, but I’m proud to do that for my Lord, I’m not being like Eeyore and thinking nothing can be done.
    It seems like some folks are either afraid of disrupting the status quo, prefer inaction, or perhaps are trying to justify why they stood down when Feminism destroyed their families. I’ll be the first to admit, that I have stood down way too much and for way too long. But now that I have been enlightened about a few things, I’m ready to stand up, for my own family, and for others. Try me! Do you know a woman who needs to be confronted with God’s word? Put me in contact, and I’ll give her God’s truth about her rebellion, and I won’t sugar coat it, I’ll ram it in sideways if she won’t take it like she should. But either way, I won’t ever be ashamed of God’s divine patriarchal order. His word is my guide, He is my portion in this life, whom shall I fear but God Himself?

    Anyhow, there is a spiritual battle going on. Your Christian brother is asking for your help. You have the opportunity to contend against my wife’s apostate church and make an example of them. Like Gideon, I probably don’t need the timid or the inattentive, just some warriors willing to do battle on God’s side. I have the faith to believe this battle could escalate, and I’m in it for my God and for my boys and for all the kids out there who are being frivolously robbed of their fathers with the help of Feminist worship centers just like Whitewater Community Church.

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  28. I had an email exchange with my wife earlier tonight, and reading between the lines, I think the website about their apostate church is starting to have some of the desired effect on that “church”. I would appreciate any help I can get calling them to repentance. Especially I think it would be beneficial to have some more comments from women asking for them to do right. They value women’s feelings far above God’s word, so if I can get more women calling for them to do right and to follow the scriptures, that will make it more likely that they will, and give them a justification to do it that they like, better than just that I or the Bible are telling them to do it. Also, a big thanks to those of you who are commenting there!

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  30. Hi Sharkly,

    Sad to hear you’re in such a battle, but cling to Christ, and pray for miracles.
    You do not know why God will let you go through all this suffering, but you can trust God to be there with you in your suffering, and create something good out of such evil.

    1 Pet 2 “But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps”
    1 Pet 4 “Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.”

    Stay faithful to Christ by the power of His Spirit, loving those around you with the love of Christ. Don’t let your heart get hardened, but follow your Master, He’s the Good Shepherd of your soul.

    Know that your battle is the tip of the iceberg and countless men suffer from the vitriol feminism has brought upon the church. We know this infection causes rot in the church, calling black white, and white black. We know the covenant of marriage is under continuous attack, that God hates divorce, that marriage should be honored among all true Christians. But many “churches” have abandoned to give honor to marriage, and instead accept divorce and even remarriage after divorce. The love of people will grow cold in the last days. Women have shown to be responsible for 70% of all divorces, as well as being solely responsible for at least 1 billion murdered babies in the last century. And many churches still do not oppose feminism, but actually endorse it. False teachers are everywhere.

    If you find the time, you might find a treasure of information in the unpublished book of the late Dr. Leslie McFall, “Good Order in the Church” (https://www.headcoveringmovement.com/Dr-Leslie-McFall-Good-Order-In-The-Church.pdf). It has a myriad of background information on the historic position of women in the church with historic backgrounds, which is eye-opening. You might also enjoy his exegesis, although some of it surely needs some refinement.

    I keep on remembering you in my prayers

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Paul – How do you figure women are solely responsible for at least 1 billion murdered babies in the last century? You do know that it takes two to make a baby, right? Some of these so-called fathers abandon the woman they got pregnant, and their baby.
    Some of them pressure the woman into an abortion.
    Some of them decide together with the woman that an abortion is the right thing to do.
    Some of them don’t even know there was a pregnancy (and this is the one time that the woman can be solely blamed for the abortion. I don’t have the statistics in front of me right now, but from memory, it’s around 25% of abortions.)
    There are very few men whose babies are being aborted against their will – although I know of two men who successfully fought to stop the abortion of their baby. We need more men like this!
    I also know teenage girls who have aborted the baby they conceived after being raped by family members.

    It’s easy for men to decry abortion and blame it all on women, but the reality is, abortion wouldn’t be a thing at all if ALL men stood up and acted like men. If every single man on the planet took responsibility for his sperm, abortions wouldn’t happen.
    There is no doubt that abortion is one of the greatest tragedies to befall mankind. But blaming it solely on women is just wrong. Men have a role to play in it, too. They can start by refraining from casual sex, and pulling the condom off during sex (yes it happens, and more often than you might think, according to a survey done by Durex). If sex only happened in monogamous, committed relationships/marriage, there would be hardly any abortions – according to NZ abortion statistics.

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  32. Under the current jurisdiction women have completely free will to decide on abortions, while men have no say at all. Similarly, women have completely free will to enter voluntarily sexual relations.

    Only about 1% of abortions are due to rape, and only 0.5% are due to incest. That still leaves 1 billion abortions due to women having voluntarily sexual relations, and voluntarily decide to kill their children.

    What are you doing to stop this evil for which women are responsible.

    Similarly, what are you doing to stop the evil of 70% of all divorces initiated by women?

    And why aren’t older Christian women not teaching younger Christian women to uphold marriage and submit to their husbands? Why instead do all these women seem to support 70% of (Christian) women that initiate a divorce.

    It’s time women are held responsible for their actions and are called out for it.

    Face it, women ARE responsible for this.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. What am I doing to stop abortions? Quite a lot, actually. What are you doing?

    I work in the social work field, so part of my role is to support women. I work with girls/women from the ages of 13 to 55, but most of them are between 18 – 25. I liaise with different agencies and find them housing, employment, education, health care, and advocate for them with social welfare, ensuring they are getting their full entitlement. I set them up with budget advisors, counsellors… whatever they need. I get wrap-around support services for them, and the help they need, whatever their situation.
    Many of the women I work with consider abortion. Some still do choose to take that path, but often, when they realise I can help them with getting them set up on a benefit, a rental, parenting classes, foster care etc. they choose to have the baby. Some keep it, some don’t – these babies will enter the foster care system.

    Aside from that, I am raising my children to have good morals and to be decent, kind human beings. My 17 year old son is respectful, a hard worker, responsible, honest, generous, treats people, and his girlfriend, well. He has not yet chosen to follow Jesus, but I continue to pray that he will.
    My 13 and 15 year old daughters are being raised to love children, to know how to care for them, and to uphold the standards of the Bible, including abstaining from sex until they are married.
    My 7 year old son is being raised in the same way.

    Here in New Zealand, where I live, abortion laws are different to what they are in America. But blaming your legislation for locking men out of abortion decisions does not detract from the fact that far too many men are choosing to be irresponsible with their sperm. If men do not wish to contribute to abortion statistics they have a really easy, effective option: keep it in their pants. As men clearly believe their right to sex trumps their responsibility of their sperm, abortions are going to continue to be a devastating reality. Because you’re so concerned with what I am doing to stop abortion, I’m going to assume that you are also working hard to stop abortion – perhaps mentoring young men and teaching them about responsibility and discouraging pre-marital sex?

    There are a few older women teaching younger women to uphold marriage and submit to their husbands. I have a few mentors in my church, and one online blogger I enjoy who does this is Lori Alexander.

    I have to admit to doing nothing to stop divorce, although I have absolutely no intention of divorcing my own husband, despite the trials we have faced, and will continue to face, as my husband battles addiction. And I pray for those who I know are struggling. What are you doing?

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  34. Dear Ace, I commend you for all your contributions to prevent abortions in women, as well as raising your children according to biblical ethics, I really do.

    I’m addressing all women as a group however. Much like men have been addressed as a group in the past century for the wrongs done by a select few of them. That was enough to ridicule and vilify men on a scale like history has never seen before. And you try to defend women as a group, by shifting blame to men for the horrible voluntary decisions made by women themselves to kill their children, or to end their marriages. In all these cases, men do not even have a legal way to prevent that from happening to them. It’s really horrible, as Sharkly can testify as one of the many men having to endure these horrors.

    Abortion has nothing to do with getting pregnant, you’re well aware there are other options for handling an unexpected pregnancy, so please don’t use involuntary pregnancy as a moral reason to justify women choosing to kill their children.

    “As men clearly believe their right to sex trumps their responsibility of their sperm”
    Show me one legal system where a man has the right to sex, ANYWHERE in the world, at ANY time of history. Since the beginning of this century, in the majority of countries worldwide even husbands can be legally prosecuted for raping their own wives. And even the majority of marital legal laws have abolished any right to sex for men (and women).

    The only right to sex, is the right the bible prescribes within marriage (1Cor7), but as I just have shown, in most jurisdictions it is illegal, or at least carries the risk of being legally liable for a serious crime like rape.

    If you insist on discussion sexual encounters leading to pregnancies, at least acknowledge that not only have women the power to say no to men, since #metoo even the slightest unsubstantiated hint at any sexual initiative from a men is punishable by being forever shamed by the community, as well as any legal repercussions, for which a woman’s testimony is often enough for conviction under many jurisdictions. The cards are stacked against men here. It’s one of the reasons that men are avoiding getting married like the plague nowadays. And it’s only getting worse for them, as women are trying to enforce that even during sexual intercourse, men should continuously make sure she is still consenting, for risk of getting eaten alive in court. Women have no such obligation.

    Hence, 98,5% of the sexual encounters leading to women to decide to kill their children, are the result of 100% consent to have sexual relations by these women. Don’t try to shift the blame to men. Women ARE 100% responsible for choosing abortions, as well as 100% responsible for 70% of all divorces.

    The older women should learn the younger women to love their husbands (NO divorce, giving him the right over their body (and her the right over his body), etc.) and to submit to him in everything, to love their children (NO abortion). I’ve NEVER heard ANY older woman teach that to ANY younger woman, have you?

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  35. Paul – you are correct, my choice of wording regarding men and sex was not right. I should have said “desire” instead of ‘right’. You are correct that men do not have the legal right to sex. But yes, I have heard women teach submission, including everything you mentioned. I’ve read it online, and I’ve heard it spoken. I’ve also witnessed it in action.

    You are also correct that the #metoo movement is a crock of sh*t and men can be convicted of rape on the word of a woman. I have shared previously on this blog my personal experience of that – my husband’s best mate is currently serving time for a rape he didn’t commit. Evidence proved his innocence, but the jury believed the Oscar-worthy performance of his “victim”.
    But none of that negates the fact that men are just as responsible for abortions as men are. Sure, the woman might be the one who makes the ultimate decision, but she didn’t get pregnant by herself. And if the man had decided to stick around, the woman might be less likely to abort the baby that they both created.
    I don’t know if our NZ abortion statistics are different to American ones, but here, the most common reason for abortions are financial. Until just this month abortions were only legal here under strict criteria, most falling under mental health, but longitudinal studies I’ve read cite finances as the main reason. Here in NZ men can just refuse to sign the birth certificate and they then don’t legally have to pay child support (which is a pittance anyway) and we don’t have alimony or anything like that, so a man can very easily opt out of providing for a baby he created.

    Just so we’re clear: I think abortion is wrong. There are no circumstances in which I think it is right. But I know too well why women have them, and you can deny it all you want but I see it regularly: women have abortions mostly because men are irresponsible for the lives they create and women are too afraid to do it alone for whatever reason.

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  36. Also, please bear in mind the laws here in NZ are very different. Here, the family court is very fair to the men, because it’s based on the principle that the best thing for the children is equal contact with both parents. Unfortunately, it means a woman cannot even take her children and leave town to escape an abusive relationship because the father can stop her. So she has to rely on the police to protect her and they do a dismal job of it. Well over 75% of all murders of women in NZ are carried out by a male partner or ex-partner and we have one of the shockingly highest domestic violence stats in the western world.
    Also, men here can legally stop an abortion. I know 2 who have done so.

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  37. Dear Ace, I can agree with many things you write, but not with the following statements.

    “If every single man on the planet took responsibility for his sperm, abortions wouldn’t happen.”

    Wrong! Women can get an abortion against the will of the father. In most jurisdictions his will does not matter. “My body, my choice”, remember?

    “If men do not wish to contribute to abortion statistics they have a really easy, effective option: keep it in their pants.”

    Wrong! If even a married father WANTS a child, the mother still can decide to have an abortion against his will. And that does actually happen, about 16% of all abortions are done by married women, the father’s consent is not needed, nor registered. “My body, my choice”

    “Sure, the woman might be the one who makes the ultimate decision, but she didn’t get pregnant by
    herself.”

    And that’s the whole point, the woman makes the ultimate decision. She can get an abortion if she so desires, even without consent of the father, in many jurisdictions across the globe. Therefore she is perfectly able to NOT choose an abortion. No woman can ever be forced to have an abortion against her will. Hence she is morally responsible to choose an abortion. “My body, my choice”

    “And if the man had decided to stick around, the woman might be less likely to abort the baby that they both created.”

    Less likely is not the point. We’re talking about actually carried out abortions! Even if a man “deserts” a pregnant woman (why did she consent to have sex with him in the first place? Is that the man’s fault too?), she is not REQUIRED to kill her baby. If she totally does not want to take care of her own baby (which is also evil, but of a lesser kind), she can give up the child for adoption. There are numerous couples who strongly desire children, but are infertile, who would love to take care of such a child. To kill her child is evil.

    And women HAVE killed at least 1 billion babies. That’s more than ALL victims in ALL wars during ALL of history! From 2010-2014, 25% percent of ALL viable pregnancies end in abortion (worldwide its ! That’s MORE than 1 out of 5 children who get killed by their own mothers! The only cause of death in humans that comes near (0.75*32= 24%) are cardiovascular diseases. The percentage of deaths due to cancer are about (0.75*17)=13%.

    So the top three causes of deaths in humans are:
    1. Being aborted by your own mother 25%
    2. Cardiovascular disease 23%
    3. Cancer 14%

    So women are more deadly than every other known cause of death to the human race. Voluntarily. By their own free will. Morally responsible. “My body, my choice”

    At least men are fighting the battle to find cures for cardio-vascular diseases and for cancer, but women are fighting to allow for MORE abortions worldwide. You see them march all over the world, all year round, to have even MORE abortions. To give their support to other women. Sick and evil!

    In the past century, mothers have become worse than cancer, and worse than cardio-vascular diseases, remember that!

    Thank you women! You should be ashamed of yourself. Be certain that God will judge you.

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  38. “women have abortions mostly because men are irresponsible for the lives they create and women are too afraid to do it alone for whatever reason.”
    Why do the women choose irresponsible men to have sex with?
    It’s not difficult thought process to perform as a woman, and she should do that, being the one bearing the potential consequences in form of pregnancy (…if she feels mature enough to have sex with whomever she fancies, she should be mature enough to realize that this (choice of a right mate, considering possible consequences) is on her, which might not seem ‘fair’ , but it’s reality) : “I can get pregnant from this activity. Is he the kind of person I would want to be the other parent of my child? Would he make a good father? Does he possess such character traits that if I get pregnant he will likely stay?”

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  39. It’s really a simple rule, for both men and women; outside marriage you should always say NO to sex, inside marriage you should always say YES to sex (unless you BOTH agree for a SHORT period to abstain). See 1 Cor 7.

    Not only men, but especially young women are more than willing to have sex outside marriage, whereas inside marriage a whopping 20% of couples have to deal with one of the spouses consistently refusing the other sex. Usually it are women who do that. Shame on you, women!

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  40. It’s not just men fighting for cancer and heart disease cures – women are doing it too. My father is currently in the cardiac ward of the city hospital and of the 7 cardiac specialists there, 4 are women. Dad has 2 specialist cardiac nurses looking after him in 12 hour shifts each – one man, one woman.

    In our abortion law change here in NZ, to loosen our abortion laws, all the MPs made a conscience vote on it. 60% of the MPs who voted in favour of loosening the law were men.

    All around the world, men are engaging in casual sex without a second thought. Men who do this have absolutely no right to be against abortion because they are direct contributors to abortion. Here in NZ it is estimated that 1 in 4 women have had an abortion. 1 in 3 women have been sexually assaulted by a man. Can you really not see the contribution of men here, or are you just too arrogant to admit to it?
    There is an entire forum on Reddit dedicated to pregnancy kink (don’t even ask me how I know this. It’s one of those things that can’t be unseen). Men are on there teaching men how to get women pregnant without their knowledge – everything from slipping the condom off during sex to drugs to slip in her drink to stop the birth control pills from working). Obviously the woman is engaging in consensual sex so she is to blame too – but these men are sharing lists of the places who will do late-term abortions. Most of these places are unsafe, backyard places. There is an overlap here with sex trafficking.

    My point is: men are responsible for abortions, too.
    If any man engages in casual sex, he is part of the problem. Paul you said men are shying away from marriage. I bet they’re not celibate, though! Unless they are celibate, or have had a vasectomy, they are part of the problem.
    If any man supports his partner in getting an abortion (more than 30% of abortions in NZ) he is part of the problem.
    Saying men are completely blameless is just wrong.
    Legislation is not going to make abortion go away – abortions have been happening forever, and botched backyard abortions used to be one of the leading causes of death in young women.
    Whole-of-society attitude change is what is needed. Men included. But from the attitudes of far too many men that I have seen, including teenagers, I don’t hold out much hope. Satan has well and truly won this war.

    And please, don’t tell me adoption is a good option. It’s got far-reaching, long-lasting negative consequences that affect every part of the adopted child’s life. It’s responsible for my husband’s drug addiction (a professional opinion, not my own). It’s responsible for similar issues in my half-brother.
    The ONLY way to stop abortion is to change the whole of society, and that is just not going to happen.
    But I will continue working with women on the frontlines, doing my best to help them make different choices, and not abort their babies.
    And you Paul, considering I asked you what you’re doing to stop abortions and you did nothing but rant about how it’s all the woman’s fault and men are completely blameless, can continue to make the problem worse.

    Next time you’re down there on the picket lines with those disgusting Westboro Baptist church people, remember: you’re not helping. You’re making it worse.

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  41. And yes, I agree: Always NO to sex outside of marriage. Always YES within it.
    It’s getting society to believe that, that is the hard part.

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  42. Ofelas – You claim: “It’s not difficult thought process to perform as a woman, and she should do that,”

    I’m going to assume English is not your first language because I don’t really understand exactly what you’re trying to say, but if you’re saying that a woman choosing who to sleep with is easy, then I don’t agree with you. Women, just like men, if they’re looking for casual sex, are attracted to certain things.
    I’m sure you’ve heard of the likes of Roosh V – a man who has written dozens of books about picking up women in different countries. Men like this have mastered the art of attracting women. They know what women want, and they set about exuding that masculine charm that women find so attractive, for the sole purpose of sex.

    Repeatedly on this blog, you will see it said that women are the weaker sex, inferior in every way, second class citizens, and unable to reason. So we have woman, who (in the opinion of men on here) should probably not be allowed out unaccompanied because of their idiocy, and we have men like Roosh, who’s sole purpose in life is bedding as many women as possible. And then we have you, Ofelas, who claims that it’s not a difficult thought process to perform as a woman.

    I suggest you read through this blog. You won’t have to read very much of it to see how women are easily deceived, easily led astray…. etc. And men like Roosh V have mastered the art of doing just that, and are teaching other men how to do it.

    Yet it is “not difficult thought process to perform as a woman.” Really??

    I fell for the quintessential bad boy – the tall, broad, sexy rebel on a motorbike. I married him. I had children with him. And I’ve suffered greatly for it. Don’t get me wrong – he’s a good guy – but a more stable man would have made a steadier, easier marriage.

    You also said: “if she feels mature enough to have sex with whomever she fancies, she should be mature enough to realize that this (choice of a right mate, considering possible consequences) is on her, which might not seem ‘fair’ , but it’s reality) :”

    I do agree with this, to a point. Yes, the burden of pregnancy is on the woman. Which is why, if a man is going to indulge in casual sex, he can not therefore also be against abortion. You will find most women who engage in casual sex are not against abortion. Even many married women who would never have abortions themselves, are not against safe abortions being available in limited circumstances. Men seem to be the ones who are most against abortion – maybe because it’s not something they can control – but they keep forgetting that they are the ones with the most power to stop it. Simply do what you are insisting women should solely be doing – be a little more discerning with the women you fornicate with, or get a vasectomy if you don’t want to do that, so there is no chance of pregnancy. A vasectomy is easily reversed; permanent sterilisation in a woman not so much. And most hospitals won’t perform sterilisation in young women anyway, but they will give a young man a vasectomy.

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  43. Ace,
    I must clarify a few things:
    I believe I’ve already corrected this one with you before. You said:
    All around the world, men are engaging in casual sex without a second thought. Men who do this have absolutely no right to be against abortion because they are direct contributors to abortion.
    Nothing takes away a man or woman’s right to be against abortion. Even murderers can rightly be against murder. While they may be hypocrites, that is better than them showing no remorse or even endorsing abortion which is murder. I have stood on the picket line, in Wichita, with a woman who had previously had an abortion. I was glad she was there trying to prevent other women from making the same mistake that she had made. We never lose the right to stand for the will of the King of the universe. It is always God’s will that all men stand for what is righteous and against what is evil.

    Saying men are completely blameless is just wrong.
    I didn’t see Paul, or anybody else here, say that. You are arguing against a strawman that you keep setting up. What Paul has said is that women bear primary responsibility for their own actions, and that is obviously true, if women have freewill, which they do.

    Legislation is not going to make abortion go away – abortions have been happening forever, and botched backyard abortions used to be one of the leading causes of death in young women.
    Abortion was legalized through legislation, and consequently became far more popular when the risk of women dying just to murder their baby was decreased. Yes we have to change hearts and minds, but changing the law is also very important. And I, for one, am glad for each and every woman who was killed as a result of murdering her own innocent baby. God’s capital punishment of such a disgusting murderer of the innocent is just and good, and hopefully deters others who might hear about it. Thank God my mother assaulted the doctor who recommended that she abort me in the interest of her own health, instead of listening to him. And that happened even before it was fully “legalized”.

    Repeatedly on this blog, you will see it said that women are the weaker sex, inferior in every way, second class citizens, and unable to reason.
    I never said women are inferior in every way. Women can have babies, and breast feed them, which is pretty cool! I also never said women are unable to reason, although you are making me question it. LOL What I have said is that men are usually, by nature, better at abstract reasoning while women are more controlled by their emotions. And that is almost a quote from saint Augustine too, so that isn’t solely my opinion, a lot of people have noticed that. Here is the quote:
    Augustine wrote: “… woman was given to man, woman who was of small intelligence and who perhaps still lives more in accordance with the promptings of the inferior flesh than by superior reason. Is this why the apostle Paul does not attribute the image of God to her?”

    I hope that clarifies those things for you.

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  44. Ace,
    Also, please refrain from asking men to castrate themselves. That is really insulting to males. And it isn’t always reversible, or without serious complications. While I’m not a gnostic or a catholic, who wrongly feel that ALL sex is defiling for a man, and that defiling sex only becomes exempt and permissible for the purpose of procreation, due to God’s Old Testament command to be fruitful and multiply. I do feel that castrating a man dishonors God, who asks us to not even tattoo or pierce our bodies:
    Leviticus 19:28 You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.

    I do think that, as the image of God, a man lowers and defiles himself when he has sex with a woman, which makes them both one flesh then and also consummates a marriage covenant in the eyes of God, if they are in agreement to be married. My own opinion is that correspondingly sex, sanctified by marriage, with a man, who is the image of God, exalts a woman.
    Revelation 14:4 (KJV) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
    Revelation 14:4a (NTE) These are the ones who have never polluted themselves with women; they are celibate.
    Revelation 14:4a (EHV) These are the ones who were not defiled with women, because they are virgins.

    According to that verse all but the virgin males are defiled or polluted by women. The Bible tells us also that a married man’s attention is divided away from serving God solely. However, I feel that the defilement is permanent, and that once the marriage is consummated the sex is sanctified by virtue of the fact that the defilement is already complete, and further engaging in honorable, suitable, and seemly sex acts does not cause any further defilement since that particular defilement is already completed. In fact 1 Corinthians 7:2-5 then mandates that sex be generously given to the mate to prevent temptation due to the same inherent human lack of self-control, that would cause the single person to burn with unmet desire, the satisfaction of which, is the reason given to get married in the first place.
    1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they cannot abstain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

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  45. Sharkly – Paul wrote this: “Women have shown to be responsible for 70% of all divorces, as well as being solely responsible for at least 1 billion murdered babies in the last century.”
    Solely responsible = the only party at fault, everyone else is blameless. Hence Paul claimed men are completely blameless with regards to abortion.

    The following are some quotes from this blog stating various ways women are inferior:
    * “Women were created as weaker vessels, morally inferior, and in need of husbanding” – Sharkly
    * “The solution is for women to realize their husbands are the matchless image of God Most High, while they themselves are inferior vessels who bring trouble by their very nature” – Sharkly
    * “So as you can see, being the image of God places greater duty upon the man, to look out for his inferior, including the call to be ready to lay his life down for his bride” – Sharkly
    * “Man is greater than woman” – ikr
    * “there can be no way that any woman could ever be any man’s equal.” – Sharkly
    * “Nothing needs to be proven, men are superior to women, that is biological fact that cannot be ignored” – Terry S.
    * “Feminism’s twisted dogma has filled wives, the inferior vessels, with an unnatural sense of equality” – Sharkly
    Need I go on? Or have I proved my point that it is said repeatedly on this blog that women are inferior in every way? Don’t forget Sharkly, that you once wrote an entire post on your epiphany of male superiority where you said yes, you think women are inferior to men. A general statement, no quantifiers to that, just simply inferior. So, inferior in every way.

    Like the good wife I am, I now must go and make some mashed potatoes to go with the casserole I have had in the oven all day, to feed my husband and children. But later tonight I will come back and point out the parts on here that claim women are unable to reason. Remember, Sharkly, that my comment was in response to Ofelas, so I was talking about comments/opinions from everyone on this blog, not just you.

    I also have some abortion statistics to share with you, when I return. I asked my boss to send them to me, so they should be the latest stats available.

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  46. Sharkly – I was not asking men to castrate themselves. Is that even possible? To castrate oneself? Rather, it is an option for men who insist on engaging in casual sex, who do not want to use condoms, or worry about the burden of pregnancy, so they can then be against abortion without being hypocrites.

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  47. Ace,
    You’re right that I think women were created as a second class of humans, weaker vessels, intended to be in subjection to men, and that they are an inferior, of lesser rank and made to serve her greater. I don’t think you need to busy yourself rounding up quotes to prove I feel that way. However, I won’t deny what is true. And I am not saying that women cannot do some things that men can’t or weren’t intended to do. Again I think you’re trying to assemble a straw-Sharkly, put words in his mouth and then refute him.

    While I’ll let Paul defend himself, if he cares to. He may have been meaning that of the over one billion abortions, statistically at least one billion of them were solely women’s responsibility. Or perhaps he meant primarily women’s responsibility. I don’t think anybody is trying to say that evil men don’t contribute to the prevalence of abortion, or perform abortions. However in most cases there is a woman who makes a choice to kill a man’s baby, and she is morally responsible for what she does, even if there are others at fault too.

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  48. Ace says: Like the good wife I am, I now must go and make some mashed potatoes to go with the casserole I have had in the oven all day, to feed my husband and children. But later tonight I will come back and point out the parts on here that claim women are unable to reason.

    “must go” Don’t you mean that you get to go be a wife and mother, and that you enjoy it so much that it is going to be hard to pull yourself away to argue with strangers on the other side of the world? It almost sounds like you enjoy being contentious more than getting to lovingly make the exquisite mashed potatoes that you will, no doubt, offer to nourish your beloved and his offspring?

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  49. No, the correct term was “must go”. I don’t like mashed potatoes much, so yes, being contentious with random people on the internet is much more enjoyable than preparing a food I don’t much like ;). But my hearty beef casserole with mashed potatoes is one of my husband’s favourite meals, and he likes it very much when I make it for him.
    And yes, I love being a mother. The only two things I don’t like about it is cleaning up vomit, and when my babies grow up and leave home. I’m still struggling with that last one, even though I still see Mr 17 nearly every day. But today, my children are all visiting friends, for the first time since lockdown began here in late March and my husband has been busy all day bidding in an online antique auction, now that we’re allowed to open our shop back up again. So in between taking my husband food and coffee, I got some time to myself. I caught up on some housework, read for a while, and got to cyber-visit my favourite misogynists. It’s been great 🙂

    I do have one question, though. You freely admit to your belief that women are inferior. Why then, did you try to claim that you have never said that women are inferior in every way? Especially because my comment was in response to someone who seems to think women’s thought processes are simple (I think??) on a blog that likes to remind everybody that women are inferior and probably not all that bright. I mean, we can’t have it both ways, can we? How can women both be inferior to the point of having to be constantly led (I think “husbanded” was the word another commenter used in a previous post) by men, yet also be expected to so easily make fantastic discernments as to who they accidentally procreate with?

    Obviously, the men on this blog are right and women are completely inferior and most certainly do not possess the nous to engage in casual sex, because they are easily deceived and will so easily mistake an absolute sod of a man for someone who actually cares for them. How then, can you blame women for abortions? Surely it’s the fault of the men, for letting their womenfolk leave the house unaccompanied? And for leading astray silly, easily-deceived, weak women? Shouldn’t the men be protecting the women, seeing as how we’re weaker and all, not using them for their own carnal purposes?

    Ofelas wonders why women choose irresponsible men to have sex with. Shouldn’t the better question be: as men are by far superior to women in every possible way, why do we have irresponsible men out there refusing to provide for the lives their ejaculations create? After all, women are inferior, so this naturally puts the onus on men to do the right thing. And judging by the number of abortions being performed every year, they’re doing a pretty crappy job of it.

    Oh – and those abortion statistics I mentioned? They’re showing that around the world, in every single nation that has legalised abortion in some form, abortion rates are falling. Likely because these countries have easily accessible contraception. Abortion rates peaked in the 1980s, and has been dropping ever since. Interestingly, abortion was accepted practice in ancient Greece and Rome. It’s only in fairly recent times that it has become frowned upon. Even right up until 1803 in England, abortion was perfectly legal until the “quickening” at 18-20 weeks.

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  50. You freely admit to your belief that women are inferior. Why then, did you try to claim that you have never said that women are inferior in every way?
    Because I’m a man of truth, and one who values semantics. we will be justified or condemned by our own words. I pray that I don’t ever teach anything that is untrue regarding God’s word. that being the case, I maintain that all women are inferior in created rank as set by the providence of God. And women are generally inferior physically, mentally, emotionally, and constitutionally. But women are solely able to give birth, and are designed to nurse babies, so those are a couple things women are going to be superior at. And there will always be exceptions to the generalities, but not to the fact that God made men in His image and glory to have dominion over every other earthly creature including women.

    So even though women are not as mentally stable and logical and are more susceptible to their own emotions and moods, They are generally competent enough to be held responsible for their own decisions. For example: God says that both the man and the woman who commit adultery together should be put to death. He also said that they have no inheritance in the Kingdom of God. So clearly God sees it fitting to hold both parties bodies and souls guilty for their involvement in adultery. It would behoove them both to repent, in hope that forgiveness is still available to them. Likewise with abortion, people will be held responsible for their involvement, even out to the national level. I will be judged for how I reacted to this wicked and adulterous generation. If I fit in, I will be judged harshly! We all, for the sake of our souls, should be crying out in protest against the wickedness of our generation and repenting in prayer for our national sins, generational sins, family sins, and personal sins. The prophet Daniel gave us a good example of repenting for the sins of his nation.

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  51. in regard to the subject of the original post, here is a slightly modified copy of a comment I left over at Σ Frame.

    While I have a brief moment, I’ll try to address a few questions here.
    I never attended Whitewater Community Church or its Mennonite predecessor called “Swiss Church”. My Father grew up in a large functional Mennonite church called Emmaus Mennonite Church. It has since gone down hill pretty fast. Swiss Church was a smaller more seeker-friendly Mennonite church that was more in tune with the world. A while back they sold their old building that looked barely recognizable as a church from the outside, changed their name to Whitewater Community Church, and built the big metal “hog shed” that they will re-infest once father-government tells them they are allowed back inside. It would seem their goal is to make their church a place that has enough appeal to the unsaved that unsaved would come there even when they don’t care to follow God. Which is what they have now achieved, a congregation of lost souls who sing their love for Jesus while they refuse to follow Jesus direction for spiritual discipline, or follow any other thing in the Bible a Feminist might object to. It has become a place to go engage in spiritual self-deception. While Jesus said “What God has joined together, let no man separate”, these folks will actually assist you in divorcing, and claim that your husband trying to correct your infidelity with words is “verbal abuse” and with Bible verses, is “spiritual abuse”. They really do worship whores above God, and too consistently to be any fluke.

    I understand Jason’s frustration with the apostate churches, which is most every church that I can tell, in this wicked and adulterous generation. I also understand his similar frustration with the manosphere, which has some extra knowledge, but few actionable solutions for both his situation and mine.

    The manosphere’s problems are much like the churches problems. There are certain basic false presuppositions upon which the whole edifice is built, which leads the whole building to crumble and cave in when facing the world’s opposition. They’ve already conceded the truth away before they even start to look for solutions. They either start with the churchian theology of women being equally in the image of their hermaphrodite god/goddess, or they start off with godless evolutionary-psychology. Either way, you don’t logically arrive at absolute divinely-required holy patriarchy. They both have to force their logic to arrive at patriarchy. If people think that God didn’t make men a whole order of magnitude higher in divine rank and glory, such that no woman can equal any man here in the flesh, then patriarchy may only work for some blessed men, and possibly only while they’re at their best.

    My confidence comes from being that man, bold, brave, strong, smart, confident, rich(at one time), and not bad looking, and even while I tried my best, I still got continually shit on. I know you can’t make game work to make a whore into a saint if she is set on being an evil whore. Jason is right in that regard, what the manosphere has been proposing in the past, will not work, and certainly won’t work for everyone. The book of Hosea records a prophet divinely empowered and tasked to love a whore like God loves. And the crazy whore rejects all the good and God-like care and constantly runs to the arms of evil to cuckold her divinely loving husband. To have a good marriage requires a lot from both parties, but the character of the marriage is primarily dependent on the weakest link, the weaker vessel, the defiler, the woman.

    My project to expose the public face of Whitewater Community Church to be a divorce-enabling Feminist cesspit of cowardice, rebellion against God’s word, and sexual immorality including homosexual pedophilia by their church leaders. Is a worthy cause for me, and for others to join me in. If we can make one churchian franchise rue the day they decided to wedge between a man and his family by publicly calling them out and calling for their repentance, and exposing their wickedness to the light, then we can do this to other churches, and for other men, until the churches will fear the servants of God enough to try to follow the word of God, for fear their wicked deeds will no longer be kept hidden, but will be exposed and left a standing testimony to their service of Satan. Repentance must start with the house of God, and so must discipline. And WE, men of God, must discipline the wayward churches, as servants of Jesus Christ, to make his bride ready. It won’t be every church that is Christ’s bride. The Mother of Harlots had many daughters! There is only one true bride, and it is made up of us, those who are not too cowardly to fight the world’s system on behalf of the Most High God, who has bestowed His image and glory on men like us, to be His representatives in matters like this. We who are God’s servants will even judge the angels. How much less shall we not rule over these uncircumcised-of-heart philistines who defy this army of the living God. I will fight these whoring enemies of the Lord until they bow before him as his footstool. Join me! It is a noble purpose to fight in the army of God, to bring many to righteousness. Don’t be fainthearted! Greater is He that is in me, than he that is in the world. And thanks already to Jack and those others of you who are already helping God and me in this cause. My respect for you is undeniable, because I can clearly see that you are warriors in the army of the Most High.

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  52. @ Ace

    yes, you assume correctly, that English is not my mother tongue, and I struggle to master the proper use of indefinite/definite articles and word order, apologies.
    But you read me correctly, only I didn’t mean casual sex specifically (unless by casual sex you mean any unmarried sex though, which I assume you don’t, or ? ).
    You make your point as if the majority of abortions are pregnancies from casual sex (let’s assume, because you refer to Roosh etc, that you mean random encounters with players who are out there determined to get some p**y even by deception, without any context of at least better knowing each other etc), but I’d guess that big part of the total number of abortions comes from some type of dating liaisons (with all that veneer of false respectability, because they love each other and stuff..) ; I believe that pregnancies from pick up artists form a minority in the abortion statistics – that might be a wrong guess, but somehow I don’t think it is..

    Also, to answer your question: yes, really, it’s can’t be that difficult, when in the generation of my grandmother (born mid 1920is) and even mother it was a common sense: the player/rake, whatever you call the type, regardless of all his charms, is absolutely a no go for a good girl, and she should steer clear of such.

    Sad thing is, that, generally speaking, the loyal, stable, responsible man would never get that degree of devotion and loyalty as the bad boy from a woman, and the tolerable threshold for his eventual transgressions would be substantially lower than for the bad boy.

    “Men seem to be the ones who are most against abortion – maybe because it’s not something they can control – but they keep forgetting that they are the ones with the most power to stop it. Simply do what you are insisting women should solely be doing – be a little more discerning with the women you fornicate with, or get a vasectomy if you don’t want to do that, so there is no chance of pregnancy. ”

    – What you are doing here is that you equate men who are against abortions with men wanting to freely fornicate and then bear no responsibility, with your use of the generic second person and “men”, but these two sets of men maybe overlap to an extent, but otherwise this is a very dishonest argument/attempt to discredit a point of an opponent in a discussion.
    When something is wrong and certain demographic (women) has in a majority of cases direct and full control over whether they will allow it to happen (by choosing whom to sleep with or, after making that choice wrong, by choosing to be an adult and bear consequences), they are the ones to be held accountable (barring cases like being really forced into the decision).

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  53. @ Ace

    “someone who seems to think women’s thought processes are simple (I think??)”

    – no, women’s thought processes can be even very complex, I meant that, for a woman of average or even below average smart, it’s not a difficult thing to connect dots (sex – pregnancy) and assess the man she is about to spread her legs for, when it comes to his serious intentions and responsibility and likelyhood of fulfilling the father role (clear signal of that would be marriage, but times are such that it’s unfortunately no longer the case for vast majority of sexual relations).

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  54. Dear Ace, in general I appreciate your contributions, and as you describe your life’s conduct, you seem to be genuinely following the Lord’s commands, for which I praise you.

    It seems however reason is not enough to change your convictions, but instead you seem to experience a deep desire to shift blame from women to men, thereby trying to reduce women’s moral responsibility, even though I have shown that your “argument” on men being responsible for abortions because their sperm can make woman pregnant is a non-sequitur for women getting abortions. Your other points do not support men being responsible for abortions either. Again, we’re talking about the collective, and there will always be individuals who are the exceptions. But it is women who are generally quick to try to place a common guilt on men as a whole, and shame them, as you yourself have also demonstrated.

    In your own case, you’re a social worker to women, which is great. But in how many of the cases when you discuss abortion with women, do you consult the father for his opinion? Why or why not? And more in general, how many workers in social institutions give men the same amount of care and attention as such institutions give to women? I think it shows how privileged women are, but let’s not go in that direction now.

    And as for adoption; what’s better, to be murdered or to be adopted? What is morally more evil for a mother to do, murder her child, or give it away for adoption? And if adoption is so evil, why do women not decide to raise up their own child? And if raising a child alone is too hard for them (which is bollocks most of the time anyway), why do women have casual sex with men, risking getting pregnant, especially with men they don’t know will act as reliable fathers? And even then, if women just kept their pussy in their pants, they wouldn’t get pregnant. So women are 100% responsible to avoid getting pregnant (apart from rape). You can’t blame that on men.

    Men giving in to women’s immoral desires is a dynamic that already goes back to the Fall, so we should not be surprised to find men supporting abortion laws. But there is no law that forces a woman to have an abortion, it’s her free choice to say yes or no, and no male can force her to choose abortion, so even his consent is meaningless, on the contrary, she can have an abortion even if the male does not consent in most jurisdictions.

    That makes mothers 100% responsible to have abortions and kill their children, to date about 1 billion.

    “My body, my choice” is the disgusting slogan of women, not men. Mothers aborting their children is the number 1 death-cause among the human race. Mothers, not fathers.

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  55. Ofelas – Here in New Zealand it’s difficult to get accurate statistics on abortion because up until this month, abortion has only been legal under a very strict criteria – 98% of abortions here were performed under the “mental health” clause. But a couple of longitudinal studies have been done, and these are the results:
    ** Women in their late 20s are having the largest number of abortions.
    ** In 2017 there were 13285 abortions performed. Just 1414 of these involved teenagers.
    ** In 20% of all abortions, the woman has other children already.
    ** The most common reasons for abortion are financial.
    ** The second-most common reasons for abortion are “relationship reasons” including one or both partners not being “ready” for a child, and the relationship being unstable or ended.
    So no, it’s not just casual sex that is the reason for abortions. From people I have spoken to, casual sex leads to just over half of all abortions, here in NZ.

    Every year, all over the world, 1 in 4 pregnancies end in abortion.
    In countries with very restrictive abortion laws, or where abortion is illegal, the abortion rate is 37 per 1000 people. In countries with looser abortion laws, the abortion rate is 34 per 1000 people (- according to the Guttmacher Institute via Amnesty.org.nz)

    You said: “Also, to answer your question: yes, really, it’s can’t be that difficult, when in the generation of my grandmother (born mid 1920is) and even mother it was a common sense: the player/rake, whatever you call the type, regardless of all his charms, is absolutely a no go for a good girl, and she should steer clear of such.
    Sad thing is, that, generally speaking, the loyal, stable, responsible man would never get that degree of devotion and loyalty as the bad boy from a woman, and the tolerable threshold for his eventual transgressions would be substantially lower than for the bad boy.”

    I married a bad boy. My sisters partner was always a player – he even had a personalised number plate on his car saying that. My sister is intelligent, attractive, highly educated, and earns six figures a year as a business analyst. And she still fell for the rake/player/bad boy. Together, they (and the bank) own a 1.5 million dollar house. We’re both in long-term committed relationships with our men, but most women don’t marry this type – this type of man is the man to have fun with! These men are out there, showing off their charms, and the women are falling for them. Which brings me back to my point: both men and women need to take responsibility for their sexual encounters. But men don’t have to – they can just walk away, and leave the woman to deal with it. The woman can’t just walk away.

    To be clear: I am against abortion on a personal level. There are no circumstances under which I would have an abortion. I was a virgin until marriage, and have been married to my husband for 18 years so far. But I also understand contraception fails sometimes – my Miss 13 is proof of that. I understand that not all women have access to the resources and support I have – and that is why I go to work every day to get wrap-around services for women in need, so that they choose a different option than abortion, and so they can raise the children they already have to be good, productive members of society.

    I still haven’t heard from anyone else on here what they are actively doing to stop abortion, other than ranting about how wrong it is, and how it’s all the women’s fault.

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  56. Paul – “And if adoption is so evil, why do women not decide to raise up their own child?” – My 17 year old father and his 16 year old girlfriend desperately wanted to do this. My father was absolutely willing to marry her and support her and raise their baby together. He was in the final year of his butcher apprenticeship then, and was starting to earn a decent wage. Unfortunately, they were not given that option. His girlfriends parents sent her away to one of those awful “homes” to have her baby and it was ripped away from her and given to someone else to raise. This was not her choice! I met her once, 20 years ago, and she is still traumatized by that experience. My father is still devastated by it, too.

    My husband’s 17 year old mother was so terrified of her father finding out about her pregnancy that she his it for as long as she could, then ran away from home, went to the other end of the country, had her baby but abandoned it in hospital, then returned home.

    “But in how many of the cases when you discuss abortion with women, do you consult the father for his opinion? Why or why not?” – I work with Women’s Refuge, an agency that deals with domestic violence. Most of the women I work with are fleeing abusive relationships. If possible, the father’s opinion is sought, but often, contact with the father, especially in a volatile situation like that, would put the woman at risk. Sometimes, mediation is used, but often the father isn’t agreeable to that. So short answer is yes, the father’s opinions are sought when it is possible to do so.

    “how many workers in social institutions give men the same amount of care and attention as such institutions give to women?” – I can’t answer that, because I don’t know as that’s not the sector I work in, but we refer men to different agencies every single day and hope they get the help they need. But Women’s Refuge works specifically with women.

    “you seem to experience a deep desire to shift blame from women to men” – Yes I can see how it looks like that, but that actually wasn’t my intention. My intention was to refute your assertion that women are solely responsible for abortion, as though it doesn’t take two to make a baby. Of course women are to blame as well. I believe I stated that.

    “no male can force her to choose abortion” – Yes they can, and they do. Sometimes it’s the baby’s father, sometimes it is the girls father. More often it’s just pressure, rather than actual force, but sometimes it is actual force, too, with threats of harm either to her, or people/things she loves if she doesn’t comply. Fortunately this doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.

    “And as for adoption; what’s better, to be murdered or to be adopted?” – There are actually a couple of ways to answer that question, and if you ask my husband, and my half-brother, both of them will give you different answers depending on their moods. Both have suffered deep depression, use drugs to mask the pain of abandonment, and have other issues stemming from being unwanted at birth – primal wound, it’s called. They have both said multiple times, they wish their mothers had chosen abortion.
    Of course, the other part of it is: it depends on who they are adopted by. It still hurts my father to this day that a child he created was not raised in his faith. Dad tried to take my half-brother to church when they met 18 years later, but he wasn’t interested. So is it better to not follow Jesus and go to a lost salvation, or to not be born at all? And of course we’ve all heard the horrific story of Lydia Katz who was adopted by “good Christian” parents and murdered anyway. By them. There are countless other stories like this. Adopted children have deep-rooted issues that love alone (or beatings, in the case of the Katz family) can’t fix.

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  57. Only after posting did I notice the amount of new posts after Ace’s last reaction to my previous post.

    To summarize, indeed, women are 100% responsible to choose to have an abortion. Even if we exclude the moral issues surrounding rape and incest, that still leaves the fact that women, after having had voluntarily (predominantly casual) sexual relations, again freely choosing to not avoid getting pregnant, freely choose to murder their own child, which to date amounts to more than 1 billion children.

    Do men have any involvement in this? Of course they do, first of all, without a man, a woman cannot get pregnant. But do the fathers carry some moral responsibility for the moral choice of mothers to murder their own child (assuming we can for the moment ignore the moral responsibility of the man or woman performing the actual killing according to the woman’s orders)? Only if we would agree that these women are incapable of making moral decisions, and men are therefore morally required to step in and make moral decisions for women, either as father, or in the form of government (which, by the way includes also women, who therefore carry that same responsibility. Not to mention that in most democratic jurisdictions more women than men vote, hence are more responsible for government laws). Then it could be argued that men (as sole legislators (which they are not), or as fathers) should prevent abortions from happening, either by abolishing all abortion laws (however, women drive abortion politics), forbidding women to make any moral decision (yeah, right, that’s the current very definition of “abuse”, a serious crime), or if all else fails, to stop having sex with women. To stop having sex would mean the end of the human race. That’s hardly moral either.

    As it stands now, if a man voluntarily or involuntarily impregnates a woman, in most jurisdictions, his moral choice has zero relevance for the moral choice of the woman to choose an abortion, if he morally opposes or supports the abortion of his child (if he is aware he has a child at all!), he can neither enforce nor prevent the murder of his child before it is born, only the mother has the power to do that. Therefore he carries no moral responsibility for the mother’s free choice.

    Note, it were women who morally choose to prevent men from having any power over the life of their unborn child (at least in most jurisdictions).

    Let’s face it, either women are not moral creatures and therefore are not responsible for their own actions, or they are. Stop this blame shifting, and take responsibility for your own actions, women!

    (which brings to mind Dalrock’s Law of Feminism “feminism is the assertion that men are evil and naturally want to harm women, followed by pleas to men to solve all of women’s problems.”)

    Or submit to men and let them be your head, and obey them. Then we can talk again about the amount of moral responsibility of men for abortions.

    Liked by 1 person

  58. Also, here in New Zealand, we have dozens of cases every single year, where men punch the mother of their unborn child repeatedly in the stomach, trying to cause an abortion. Sometimes they are successful. So yes, men can and do, force women to have abortions. Either through the proper channels, or just with brute, violent force. One man recently deliberately drove his car into a tree, hoping to kill the baby his partner was carrying. Another one knocked his partner down and stomped on her belly. I supported both of these women. I understand that these kinds of situations are rare – I work with the dregs of society – but they are examples of the extreme power that men have over women.
    When these men are successful, they are not charged with murder, nor manslaughter, but assault.

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  59. To close off the discussion from my part for now, have a look at this brilliant analysis of David Wood on Dave Chappellle’s take on abortion.

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  60. @Ace

    I’m getting a bit tired to have to respond to non-arguments. Could you please do us a favor and try to stick to the topic?

    “We have dozens of cases every single year, where men punch the mother of their unborn child repeatedly in the stomach, trying to cause an abortion.”

    That’s not an example of an abortion procedure, which women freely choose. It therefore is an irrelevant point to the argument that women are 100% responsible to choose for an abortion (procedure). The statistics of the 1 billion murdered children are about such freely chosen abortion procedures.

    “One man recently deliberately drove his car into a tree, hoping to kill the baby his partner was carrying.”

    Same.

    “Another one knocked his partner down and stomped on her belly.”

    Same.

    “they are examples of the extreme power that men have over women.”

    No, it shows men are stronger. In abortion it are the women who have total power over men in most jurisdictions.

    “When these men are successful, they are not charged with murder, nor manslaughter, but assault.”

    And who made it an assault only? That the responsibility of women! If it would classify as murder or manslaughter to kill your own child, women would be susceptible to the same charges if they choose an abortion. That’s the reason it’s assault only (and even women are not charged with that, showing how the assault by the man is legally not against the child, but against the woman). To be able to fulfill the utter desire of women to be able to kill their own children, it was first necessary to completely dehumanize a child, both morally and legally. That was done by women. Pure evil.

    Liked by 1 person

  61. I just looked at the time stamps on these comments: 7am. That’s quite cool. It amazes me how communication with people on the other side of the world, at a completely different time, even on a different day, is possible thanks to the internet.
    It’s after midnight here, Monday morning. I still can’t quite get my head around all that, it being different times everywhere. Kinda like a mini form of time travel.
    Enjoy the rest of your weekend, people at the top of the world 😀

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  62. Paul – you claimed men can’t force women to have abortions. I was giving you some examples of how they DO.
    In NZ, up until last month, abortion outside of strict criteria was illegal and 1500 women a year were denied abortions because they didn’t meet that criteria. If women can be prosecuted for having an illegal abortion, men should absolutely be prosecuted for causing illegal abortions. Even in the Bible, Exodus 21 I think, there is a price to pay for any man who causes a woman to abort a baby.

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  63. Just out of curiosity, where in the Bible is it mentioned that abortion is wrong? I’m not disputing that it is; I’m just not sure that it’s in the Bible. Aside from that verse in Exodus.
    Abortions were not considered to be morally wrong back in ancient times. Is that why abortion isn’t in there?

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  64. I saw this video recently containing the testimony of Jason Upton, who was adopted. It shows a very positive result coming out of a very bad situation:

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  65. @Ace

    “Paul – you claimed men can’t force women to have abortions. I was giving you some examples of how they DO.”

    Men can’t force women legally to have an abortion procedure, it’s just impossible.

    The examples you gave were not examples of abortion procedures, but examples of how men have tried to kill their unborn children, which technically could be defined as an abortus provocatus, but that term is usually reserved for any medical procedure. Informally I have used the term “abortion” to refer to such medical abortion procedures executed in clinics. That’s also the context of all “abortion” statistics I’ve referred to. Men killing their unborn children are not included in these statistics. Obviously, such men are 100% responsible for the death of their children if they accomplished their goal. Similarly, women are 100% responsible for the death of their children if they choose to “have an abortion”, i.e. go to an abortion clinic to have an abortion provocatus executed on their child.

    Have a nice weekend.

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  66. @Ace “where in the Bible is it mentioned that abortion is wrong? ”

    Nowhere, as the term “abortion” does not occur.

    However, murdering a person is forbidden in the ten commandments (killing is not always forbidden e.g. during war, or during execution of death penalties). Of course, one has to get into the argument at what point in time a person is considered a person. According to secular authorities, at least after full birth (hence partial-birth abortions are still not considered murder, but 10 minutes later, suddenly it becomes murder), but an argument can be made that human life starts at conception, a position which is held by at least the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Two weeks after conception the heart already starts beating. Biblically “the life is in the blood”, so from a biblical point of view it’s hard to argue this does therefore not already count as a person.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion

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  67. Paul – I agree with you. I personally believe (probably like most Christians) that life begins at conception. I also believe that abortion is wrong, in all circumstances. That is not something you need to convince me on.
    My question was a genuine one, because I’m not super familiar with the Old Testament, and I know that many people on here have excellent Biblical knowledge. I was wondering how much the culture of that time (abortion in the early stages of pregnancy being acceptable in ancient Greece and Rome) influenced the Biblical laws. I know that neither Jesus nor Paul mentioned abortion (although I don’t believe Jesus would have endorsed it) but I wasn’t sure about the Old Testament. Aside from that verse in Exodus, of course.

    In the course of my work, I am required, by law, to keep my personal convictions out of all of my dealings, and to be non-judgemental and supportive, even of actions I do not agree with, so it’s a bit tough sometimes. But some women ask me directly what I believe and why, and then I’m allowed to tell them, so knowing exactly what the Bible says about it – if indeed it says anything at all – would be helpful.

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  68. I just noticed that the Cunt-Worshippers at Whitewater Community Church have turned public comments on for the three most recent videos at their YouTube channel where these Feminists do their public outscreech. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA92zW6tyCIbXk5BvicfnTA/videos
    If any of you are adept at leaving appropriate comments you can take to task these homewrecking servants of Satan. I’d certainly encourage you to do so, on my boys’ behalf. You can “troll” them for a great and Godly cause. A few of their congregants apparently go there based upon the “views”, while their church is shut down, but conspicuously not nearly as many as show up to be seen when that cunt-club is open and socially operational.

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  69. I did some research about what the Bible says about abortion. This is what I found:
    •A pregnant woman who is injured and aborts the fetus warrants financial compensation only (to her husband), suggesting that the fetus is property, not a person (Exodus 21:22-25).
    • The gruesome priestly purity test to which a wife accused of adultery must submit will cause her to abort the fetus if she is guilty, indicating that the fetus does not possess a right to life (Numbers 5:11-31).
    • God enumerated his punishments for disobedience, including “cursed shall be the fruit of your womb” and “you will eat the fruit of your womb,” directly contradicting sanctity-of-life claims (Deuteronomy 28:18,53).
    • Elisha’s prophecy for soon-to-be King Hazael said he would attack the Israelites, burn their cities, crush the heads of their babies and rip open their pregnant women (2 Kings 8:12).
    • King Menahem of Israel destroyed Tiphsah (also called Tappuah) and the surrounding towns, killing all residents and ripping open pregnant women with the sword (2 Kings 15:16).
    • Isaiah prophesied doom for Babylon, including the murder of unborn children: “They will have no pity on the fruit of the womb” (Isaiah 13:18).
    • For worshiping idols, God declared that not one of his people would live, not a man, woman or child (not even babies in arms), again confuting assertions about the sanctity of life (Jeremiah 44:7-8).
    • God will punish the Israelites by destroying their unborn children, who will die at birth, or perish in the womb, or never even be conceived (Hosea 9:10-16).
    • For rebelling against God, Samaria’s people will be killed, their babies will be dashed to death against the ground, and their pregnant women will be ripped open with a sword (Hosea 13:16).
    • Jesus did not express any special concern for unborn children during the anticipated end times: “Woe to pregnant women and those who are nursing” (Matthew 24:19).
    Source: https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights?fbclid=IwAR0l1VH9HUHuJguuMYfW_hw6pM3fZXIEFYxJbKfYtR44kHmW1yUClbWJGzE

    Also Leviticus 27:6 only recognises babies more than a month old, and places more value upon male babies.

    So there’s actually quite a bit in there about abortions, which I found surprising. I understand that the source I used is not a Christian site, but I looked up the verses independently and none of them have been taken out of context or twisted.
    That site did have a very good suggestion, though. If conservative Christians want to stop abortions, why don’t they pay women not to have them, instead of spending millions on megachurches? Especially when megachurches aren’t teaching Truth anyway.

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